Forked Thread: Mage-Brute (revisited)

[Dannyalcatraz]

I did some more research: As things stand, the sourcebooks for this campaign have an ample number of spells without somatic components.

Oddly enough, several of them are divine spells...you know, spells that can already be cast in armor!

Still, I can find at least 2 good spells for each level except cantrips (no worries there). Filling in the gaps at the higher levels will be interesting.

A question, then- if you were DM, would you allow a Sorcerer PC to learn a lower level spell as a distinct variant higher level spell with a metamagic ability built in?

As in, Spell X is a 1st level spell. Would you allow the Sorcerer to learn a Silent Spell variant of it as a 2nd level spell? Or a Maximized version as a 4th level spell?

If so, would you require the Sorcerer have the metamagic feat to do so?

 

[Andor]

Cute song.

As for customized spells, if you have the metamagic feat you don't need them since you can always learn a spell of lower than your max.

If you don't have the feat, I'd be inclined to make you pay for it, either in terms of private spell research or at least buying a scroll of the spell + metamagic and then learning the scrolled version of the spell under the 'unusual spell' clause on page 54 of the PHB.

Just my .02¢

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As for customized spells, if you have the metamagic feat you don't need them since you can always learn a spell of lower than your max.

Right- I know I can learn a spell of lesser level. But can I cast a lower level spell with a higher level slot? If so, that might solve a few of my problems.

I'd rather not take metamagic feats with this PC...they're a very scarce resource and there's that whole sorcerer's delay thing as well.

Convincing him that I can research something like that may be an uphill battle...

SRD

Adding Spells to a Sorcerer’s or Bard’s Repertoire

A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time he attains a new level in his class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: The Bard or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list he now knows. With permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of.

I'm thinking that my query would (and should) be denied.

+++++

Side note- tonight is the first night of the campaign! It will largely be PC design with Poker following. That said, we know some of what will be showing up at the table:

1) My Human Sorcerer/Fighter

2) A Cleric, race unknown.

3) A warrior run by a guy who almost always plays Rangers. My bet- the warrior will be a Ranger. Race unknown.

4) A reptilian humanoid of some kind, and the player asked me to find a mini for him that held a spiked chain or double sword. My guess- Barbarian or Fighter.

5) A probable Halfling or Gnome mounted warrior of some kind.

6) A probable Halfling or Gnome spellcaster or "merchant" (our group's codeword for Rogue).

There are at least 2 other probable players who can't make it tonight, and another 1-2 who might be able to join in later, depending on work schedules.

Yes, this is a LARGE group.

Good thing, too, since we almost always have absences due to family or work schedules.

And about the Halflings & Gnomes...

Several of us met for lunch at Awaji Sushi today, and some of the players were bemoaning the lack of anything new to play- they were looking to try something different but were hitting the creative wall. I made some offhand observations about the mechanical advantages of Small spellcasters and mounted warriors which enthralled them.

If those guys talked to some of the other players, there is the very real possibility that my PC and the reptile may be the only party members over 4' tall. We're going to look like Snow White and the Seven Dwarves...or guest stars on an episode of the Muppets.

Or a bad sequel to Time Bandits.

And to top it off, if I weren't playing this oddball Sorcerer, I'd be playing a Gnome Barbarian with Spiked Hide armor and Bladed Gauntlets of some kind, possibly with Trog-stink grenades. (Inspired largely by Wolverine, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Pepe LePew.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The report:
One guy we expected to show didn't (the guy I predict will play a Ranger), but he will eventually. In the meantime, we picked up an additional player (!) who was running a Half-Orc Barbarian. He'll only be able to show up occasionally, but how often is the question.

The rest of the party was my Human Sorcerer1(/Fighter0), a Human Cleric of Boccob, the reptilian humanoid (kind still unknown) who fought with tooth and claw, a Halfling Ranger (who plans on being a mounted warrior eventually), and a Dwarf Cleric (War & Protection domains).

We were fighting a bunch of goblins holed up in a real warren, and usually had to advance single file. With the reptile on point followed by the Barbarian and the Ranger, by the time my guy got to the encounter, the encounter was over.

The other players were openly mocking my character- Adragon Von Basten. They never asked about the conundrum of a Sorcerer walking around in Scale mail with a Maul and Shield...

until the final battle of the evening.

Faced with a shapeshifting Goblin leader and his 2 cronies, the front line guys were having trouble just hitting. We had some nice buffs laid on the party, but I quickly figured out that even if I cast Master's Touch, I'd need to roll a 16 or better to hit. (the only roll I'd had above 14 was a 20 on a search roll- I wasn't confident.)

Still, I advanced and started swinging...true enough, I didn't roll anything better than an 11, and the rest of the party wasn't doing much better.

But the party managed to force our foes into a nice, straight line, and I just shifted one hex and let go. With 11 rolled on 2d6, the lightning breath took down 1 guard and damaged the other two severely. A round later, the next guard went down and we had the leader surrounded.

The !#@%#$^# shapeshifted into a rat and went down a locked grate into the complex's sewers!

Still, Adragon proved his worth tonight! Can't wait until next time!

 

[Andor]

But can I cast a lower level spell with a higher level slot? If so, that might solve a few of my problems.

You know... I was absolutely sure you could, but 3.5 doesn't appear to explicitly say so. It is implied however.

If you’re a bard or sorcerer, you can select any spell you know, provided you are capable of casting spells of that level or higher.

It is however explicitly stated that wizards, druids and clerics can memorize low level spells into higher level slots, and can convert slots into lower level spells, so denying that ability to sorcerers would be just spiteful.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I've been doing some more thinking.

I like this guy, this Sorcerer who almost never casts spells, but its looking like he may be the only arcanist in the party. Sure, there are already 2 Clerics, so we're not hurting for spell-lobbing in general, but...

So besides XPH, WeapFocus and WeapSpec- Maul (Bonus Fighter Feats), and Ability Focus (Breath Weapon), I'm leaning heavily towards taking Still Spell in conjunction with expanding his repertoire of spells like Dispel Magic, Haste, Invisibility, Blink, Orb of Force and a few more over time.

It also looks like, after that, I'm going to concentrate more on spellcaster themed feats...Empower spell, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Forge Ring.

 

[Andor]

It also looks like, after that, I'm going to concentrate more on spellcaster themed feats...Empower spell, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Forge Ring.

Ahh.. Well not quite what you started out to make, but I have to admit, a sorcerer who uses magic for everything except combat is pretty cool.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Oh yeah...I'm keeping this design at my mental fingertips for future characters...or NPCs. It will be used again!

And if I get access to the Battle Sorcerer, Marshals, Reserve feats and a wider selection of spells? Whooooo!

I have to say it was so cool to see the eye-rolls (about a fully armored Sorcerer) turn to eye-pops when he used his breath weapon.

Oh...forgot to mention- for whatever reason, my PC has just about the best AC in the party (Scale Mail + Lg Shield + Dex 16 = AC19). That, too, got jaws to hit the floor. How it happened I have no idea- I was expecting one if not both of the Clerics to be "turtles."

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I just thought...this would be perfect for a Warforged Sorcerer with the Adamantine Body Feat!

(Well...once you wrap your head around a Construct with draconic ancestors...)

 

[hornedturtle]

Duh he was built by a dragon Artificer.