Forked Thread: Mage-Brute (revisited)

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mithril armor is definitely on his wish list. Whether I can get it or not will depend on the kind of campaign my buddy is running. He has a taste for settings in which special materials and magic items are won, not bought.

The PC isn't much a blaster, except with his BW... His spell "wish list" includes things like Hold Portal and Knock, but also "buffs" like Bladeweave, Sonic Weapon and Blades of Fire.

But doggone it, blargney, I hadn't even considered Ability Focus (Breath Weapon)! I may just be able to get him to let me take that. The hurdle will be can I convince him that a feat derived BW qualifies for the Feat's "Special attack" prereq...and that a human PC can take Feats from the MM.

If I get a familiar, I'll be taking a Toad, no question. However, I'm trying to cajole him into letting me switch out the Familiar for something else- probably a feat of some kind. Familiars may be a staple of magic in RPGs and fiction, but in his campaigns, Familiars (and Animal Companions) often wind up as dead staples.

Considering that the PC is going to be multiclassing with a more combat capable class, the 16-17 Cha he has is probably sufficient. He won't qualify for the top level spells, and he'd only gain 1-5 slots pumping Cha every 4 levels. OTOH, 3 of those will be of the 4th+ level variety. Hmmm...definitely worth thinking about, one extra use each of an 8d6, 10d6 and 12d6 Breath weapon.

 

[Shin Okada]

But doggone it, blargney, I hadn't even considered Ability Focus (Breath Weapon)! I may just be able to get him to let me take that. The hurdle will be can I convince him that a feat derived BW qualifies for the Feat's "Special attack" prereq...and that a human PC can take Feats from the MM.

It will not so hard to convince him. By RAW, nothing prevent PC race from taking those monster feats. And if he has Complete Arcane, he knows that feats like Empower Spell-like Ability and Ability Focus are recommended for Warlock PCs.

Familiars may be a staple of magic in RPGs and fiction, but in his campaigns, Familiars (and Animal Companions) often wind up as dead staples.

Actually, that is true in almost any 3e/3.5e campaigns, not just your DM's. That is why so many supplements show items, feats, spells, etc. to protect familiars (like Familiar Pocket in Complete Arcane).

And PHB II finally presented an alternative class feature (replaces summon familiar ability) "Metamagic Specialist". Which allows sorcerers to use metamagic feats without increasing casting time. After the release of PHB II, almost all the sorcerers took this alternative class feature instead.

 

[blargney the second]

Yep, the extra Cha is to get more of your biggest breaths. After 1st level your BW is at best caster level *d6, and that'll run out pretty quickly then decline each day.

Truthfully, I think you might be trying to incorporate too many mechanically-antagonistic concepts in one character. You could make a decent multiclassed warrior-mage if you weren't trying to have a strong breath weapon and vice versa.
-blarg

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Have you considered Monk/sorcerer, with the multiclass feat for it from CAdv? It lets you basically use your cha as your wis stat for monk, making a nice synergy. Asent the Enlightened Fist prestige class, it's be a lot weaker than normal as a build, though. Paladin 2-3 / Sorcerer x is probably the simplest and best way to go.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It will not so hard to convince him. By RAW, nothing prevent PC race from taking those monster feats. And if he has Complete Arcane, he knows that feats like Empower Spell-like Ability and Ability Focus are recommended for Warlock PCs.

Ach- his head is harder than a rock. Years ago, I was watching the NFL draft live on ESPN and saw who the Cowboys drafted 1st & 2nd. He called me up and insisted that the #2 had been drafted 1st. I told him what I saw on ESPN, and he told me I was wrong and so was ESPN.

He wouldn't admit his error until the draft report showed up in the local newspaper. I still kid him.

I looked it up, the BW does meet the qualifications, RAW, but he may still insist that MM feats are for monsters only. (I've seen that argument here, too, so that's nothing new.) If he does, I'll find something else rather than belabor the point. After all, I don't want him to view this PC as a perpetual headache. That way lies the PC graveyard.

As for Empower or Maximize Spell-like ability and similar feats, I don't think the BW would qualify since its a supernatural ability, not a Spell-like ability.

Truthfully, I think you might be trying to incorporate too many mechanically-antagonistic concepts in one character. You could make a decent multiclassed warrior-mage if you weren't trying to have a strong breath weapon and vice versa.

Forgive me for my obtuseness, but I see only the one antagonistic concept- armor + arcane casting.

Since I'm going mostly for spells without somatic components, I'm largely skirting the issue. This goal is aided somewhat by the fact that Sorcerers learn so few spells over their advancement. There aren't many arcane spells without somatic components, but I don't have the capacity to learn all that many. The list of 1st level spells that I figure he'll be learning are Master's Touch, Feather Fall, Hold Portal, True Strike...that's 4 of the 5 he can learn.

For second level, I'm looking at Bladeweave, Blades of Fire, Blur, Knock, and Sonic Weapon...that's 5 of his 5. (Sure, I could trade out 1 or 2 of these, but I'm still looking around.)

I haven't gotten far beyond that. I know Shout is on the list of possibles, as well as the Geas spells, Dimension Door, Teleport, and some others.

Anything else- say, a favorite like Shrink Item- would be used outside of combat. Or in combat with a wand or if wearing Mithril armor (if I get it)...or maybe he'll just risk it!

To me, he looks flexible as a caster within his boundaries, and has that BW in his repertoire in order to blast. Since its a supernatural ability, it affects critters immune to spells and spell-like abilities, it bypasses SR & doesn't provoke AoOs, its pretty handy...up until I run into something that shrugs off electricity.

Have you considered Monk/sorcerer, with the multiclass feat for it from CAdv?

I did, but really wanted to smash stereotypes & preconceptions. AFAIK, nobody else has really tried an armored arcanist in such a strict environment. Its a challenge on both the mechanical and RP level. The mechanics are obvious, but the RP? What would drive an arcanist down such a difficult path?

I was briefly emboldened about Pally/Sorc when I noticed CompAdv had the "Devoted" feats that let Pallys multiclass, but alas, they can't MC with Sorcerers- just Bards, Rogues, and Rangers.

Paladin 2-3 / Sorcerer x is probably the simplest and best way to go.

Without access to the Marshal, I was really, really wanting to do something like this because of the Charisma synergy. The killer is that "no multiclassing" thing for Paladins. Since he's starting off as a Sorcerer, and I was planning to MC into a warrior class at 2nd level, I'd have to get in my full Pally progression before resuming my path as a Sorcerer, and that simply won't work for the party, from the feedback I'm getting. (There is also some indication that some of the other party members may be..."morally flexible.")

 

[Shin Okada]

As for Empower or Maximize Spell-like ability and similar feats, I don't think the BW would qualify since its a supernatural ability, not a Spell-like ability.

You are right, BW does not qualify for those feats (BW is supernatural ability and not spell-like). I just used them to point out that Complete Arcane, the book which your play group is using, is actually recommending PCs to take feats form Monster Manual.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ah- gotcha!

Yeah...I'll try using logic on him, but there are no guarantees!

 

[Andor]

Don't forget Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior.

Granted you can't get it for a while, but it will be your friend when you can get it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Its definitely on my short (OK, not so short) list of feats. I had considered one of the Crafting Feats, but It will be forever before he'd qualify for the one he'd want the most (Ring...for guaranteeing he'd get a Ring of Wizardry). There's the Power Attack feat tree. There are other Draconic Feats worth getting. I could even go for Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot and combine the archer's surgical strikes with big bolts of lightning breath, largely staying out of melee.

Oh yeah, and Ability Focus (BW). Can't forget that one.

BTW- I stand corrected: Bahamut and Tiamat were added to the list of deities in Complete Divine, so there ARE draconic deities in the set of books in this campaign...alas, my PC's Wisdom is sooooooo low. Even though the # of Favored Soul spells are determined by Cha, their potency is still determined by Wis.

So at this point, its looking like he's going to be a Sorc/Ftr...and mostly Sorc (12-16 lvls) at that.

Edit- Because of the spell, Master's Touch (which makes the PC proficient with a weapon in hand), the PC will be starting off with a Martial or Exotic Weapon, and will become proficient with it at 2nd level with the first level of Fighter. The question is again one of style. Of the Exotics, my favorite is the Greatspear, but the DM has already hinted that Reach weapons will be at a competitive disadvantage in the campaign (I have no idea why). My next choices would be Maul (1d10 x3B), Bastard Sword (1d10 19-20x2), Dwarven Waraxe (1d10 x3S), or Dire Pick (1d8 x4P...and picks are favored by Draconic clergy)- all usable with Shields. If I don't go with one of those exotics, I'll just go with a martial version of one of them. Feats are a precious resource...but those weapons are soooooo tempting.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

[hijack]Andor, I noticed your sig, so I found something special for you[/hijack]

Christmas With the Devil
Written and performed by Spinal Tap

The elves are dressed in leather
And the angels are in chains
(Christmas with the Devil)
The sugar plums are rancid
And the stockings are in flames
(Christmas with the Devil)
There's a demon in my belly
And a gremlin in my brain
There's someone up the chimney hole
And Satan is his name
The rats ate all the presents
And the reindeer ran away
(Christmas with the Devil)
There'll be no Father Christmas
'Cause it's Evils holiday
(Christmas with the Devil)
No bells in Hell
No snow below-
Silent Night, Violent Night
So come all ye unfaithful
Don't be left out in the cold
You don't need no invitation, no...
Your ticket is your soul