Fortune Cards: and randomized collectible cards come to D&D

[ExploderWizard]

Wait a second. You believe that RPGs are "primarily driven by the imagination of the players". That including something to generate random effects goes against the "substance and character of the brand", which is that you should just "Make it up!"

And, just to confirm, I assume this also applies to every random chart and table in, well, pretty much every edition of the game? You know, the ones for generating everything from items to towns to monster encounters to PC's height and weight?

All of that, clearly, not part of the substance of D&D. They clearly all work against the underlying principle of driving the game based on imagination alone.

Or were you perfectly ok with that, and only find this new way to generate random effects bad because WotC did it, and anything they do is clearly evil, missing the point of the game, and all about making money and turning the game into a CCG?

You misunderstand. The "random" element has nothing to do with it. Random stuff has been a part of the game since day one so I don't know where you are getting the idea that I think everything needs to be created from whole cloth.

The action in a TTRPG takes place in an imagined space shared by the participants. If you disagree on this point there is little need to discuss the matter any farther.

Every element that gets driven primariily by a game component rather than coming from the players drives the game a bit closer to something other than a TTRPG. Dice, minis, counters, cards, etc. can all contribute to this departure in one way or another.

Just look at the history of debates revolving around excessive dice rolling for everything. That's just DICE!! The discussions about too much roll playing still take place every day.

Traditional TTRPG products just don't produce the kind of revenue stream Hasbro needs from D&D so D&D needs to become whatever it needs to be to produce that revenue. It is a quite logical and sane approach from a corporate viewpoint and Hasbro (or WOTC) isn't doing anything wrong in merely offering these products.

Telling us the game remains the same isn't evil either, it just makes them look stupid.

 

[Dire Bare]

So, the appropriate comparison here is DDM rather than M:tG?

*shrug* No particular interest here. I don't think it's a sign of D&D going to the dogs or anything, but it doesn't appeal to me.

The only way these cards will be able to be compared to MtG or any other CCG is if we end up with Fortunes that are Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Mythic Rare (or some other rarity designation). Without rarity each card is equal and the collectibility factor stays even, making finding whole sets for those that don't like the random thing much much easier.

The comparison to Magic or DDM isn't perfect, but yeah, I think DDM is a better comparison than Magic.

Scribble has laid it out pretty well in several posts above. The cards WILL have rarity (although not necessarily the same rarity scheme as Magic or even DDM), but their use in play is different than Magic cards or even DDM miniatures.

 

[Scribble]

Traditional TTRPG products just don't produce the kind of revenue stream Hasbro needs from D&D so D&D needs to become whatever it needs to be to produce that revenue. It is a quite logical and sane approach from a corporate viewpoint and Hasbro (or WOTC) isn't doing anything wrong in merely offering these products.

So you've sat in on the board meetings or something then?

Couldn't it also be they thought this would be a neat new product people might like? (Especially since the twitter buffs seem to be popular.)


(It just always seems whenever someone dislikes a particular game element they tend to determine it's Hasbro forcing WoTC to put out stuff to make more money... Instead of WoTC just making a particular game element for fans of other types of products then they like.)

 

[MrMyth]

But I really find the above quote typical of the failure to comprehend the differences in play style. Because it absolutely fails to comprehend the distinction between the "role play" side of things and the "game" side of things as seen by someone who gains enjoyment from the simulation perspective.

Well no, I don't think you quite understand. I'm not only someone who gets that it can be nice to have mechanical support for role play elements, I tend towards that preference myself!

My issue wasn't that it is an unreasonable style of game play. It isn't even that these Fortune Cards should be immune to criticism. (I'm not bothered by the CCG element, but can see how others wouldn't like it.)

My issue was that it did seem somewhat hypocritical to claim that WotC doesn't get that the game is all about "imagination", when the game has always had plenty of mechanics available as tools for the GM to prevent it from being a purely narrative game. And, in fact, that some of the same people have also criticized WotC for movements towards that 'pure narrative' style of play.

It wasn't directed at you, certainly - I don't imagine that all people who share one opinion share all opinions. As you mentioned, you have objections to cards as a method of randomness, whether or not you'd go ahead and use them yourself. You certainly haven't suggested that any element of randomness in the game is somewhat against the core tenets of D&D, and simply more proof that WotC doesn't understand the principles of the game they produce.

 

[MrMyth]

You misunderstand. The "random" element has nothing to do with it. Random stuff has been a part of the game since day one so I don't know where you are getting the idea that I think everything needs to be created from whole cloth.

Based on:
A) The post you responded to, which said that if you need something random in your game, you should just make it up; and
B) "Roleplaying games are primarily driven by the imagination of the players."

The action in a TTRPG takes place in an imagined space shared by the participants. If you disagree on this point there is little need to discuss the matter any farther.

I'm with you so far.

Every element that gets driven primariily by a game component rather than coming from the players drives the game a bit closer to something other than a TTRPG. Dice, minis, counters, cards, etc. can all contribute to this departure in one way or another.

Sure.

But one element doesn't do so more than any other.

My point is this: For decades, people have been glad to roll on random tables. PCs will gladly poke at mutated pools of chaos and see what mutations they get. They will trigger Wands of Wonder. DMs will use random charts to determine treasure, towns, encounters, etc.

Not everyone, of course. But it has been a fundamental part of the game since the start.

Now, this takes no more away from the players than rolling some dice on a table in the DMG. It is not "moving farther away from TTRPGs". Using a card mechanic instead of a dice mechanic doesn't make it more like a CCG, any more than the use of dice makes it like Backgammon or other 'dice games', any more than using a random dice roller online makes it into a video game.

If I've got my character sheet on a laptop while I play D&D, it doesn't mean I'm no longer playing a TTRPG. It means I'm using an electronic tool to assist me.

And in the exact same way, using Fortune Cards doesn't mean I'm playing a CCG, it just means I'm using cards as a tool for my game.

What are the cards being used to do? To generate random elements, just like plenty of tables in the DMG always have. That seems in line with the "substance and character" of D&D, despite your very specific accusations to the contrary.

 

[Joshua Randall]

As M:tG is one of the most popular and profitable games of all time, I fail to see how making D&D a little more like M:tG is in any way bad.

 

[Tortoise]

The more this thread grows, the more it seems that a lot of people already think they know what these cards do and have made a judgment based on that fore-knowledge.

Come on folks, don't just gripe about it, let the rest of us in on what you know to be in these cards!

Meanwhile . . .

Can someone from WoTC please step in and clarify exactly what these are? Preferably with a few examples.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

"twitter buff"

I've seen this term a few times, and have googled, but still can't quite figure it out. What does it mean?
Thanks!

 

[Scribble]

"twitter buff"

I've seen this term a few times, and have googled, but still can't quite figure it out. What does it mean?
Thanks!

If you follow the WoTC_DnD twitter feed on Wednesdays you'll see stuff like this:

#dndenc After being in the tomb, the fresh air is invigorating - PCs gain 2 temporary hit points at the beginning of each of their turns

The idea from what I know (I don't play in encounters) is that players can utilize the most recent Tweet at points in the adventure.

They pop up all day on Wednesdays, adding an element of random to the encounters games.

They confer small bonuses here and there.

 

[occam]

"twitter buff"

I've seen this term a few times, and have googled, but still can't quite figure it out. What does it mean?
Thanks!

During D&D Encounters sessions, WotC will send out tweets from its Twitter account that add little things to the encounter that don't exist in the printed materials: a small time-limited bonus for characters who stand on particular terrain features, additional elements that can be manipulated in the encounter, etc.