Fortune cards.

[Nagol]

Dang. Maybe a set will turn up on eBay. What did they look like?

Although, I suppose I could just take the text from that site and make my own set of cards. I do have a diploma in graphic design, after all ...

Ugly by today's standards. Grey backs. Black and white with a small line graphic bit of art on the face.

 

[pukunui]

Ah OK. Thanks. Maybe I'd be better off designing my own after all. Good thing the text from the cards is freely available on the internet at least!

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

Not a fan of the collectible nature. Rather get the Paizo Gamemastery plot twist cards instead (similar idea, but non-collectible)

http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/gameMastery/itemPacks/v5748btpy8b8m

Looks like an intriguing product. I use a lot of the GameMastery cards (mainly item cards) so these might make a nice complement. Thanks for the link!

 

[I'm A Banana]

Snip the "Crap"

The mod made a good point right in your post, but I think another good point for folks to realize is that people make purchasing decisions based on knee-jerk randomness and emotional weight almost always. If someone doesn't like it, if someone thinks it's a money grab, if someone thinks it'll be useless, if someone thinks CCG elements don't belong in D&D, etc., those are all perfectly valid reasons for not buying something, even if they're entirely not based in reality.

If someone wants to not buy Fortune Cards because they believe that WotC secretly put mind-controlling toxins in the plastic coating that will make them want to change genders and pretend to have tentacle-fingers, that's an entirely valid reason for not buying them, even though it's not even a little bit based in reality.

No one is under any obligation to justify a purchasing decision to anyone. It's their money, they can stuff it in a pit and dump calf's blood on it for all anyone else is concerned.

It's okay if they don't like something for an arbitrary reason.

It's also okay if you call them on it, but, like another poster pointed out, doing this with respect will yield a lot of rich conversation, and doing it with disdain will just make you sound like a jerk.

Actually the cards are just like a table in that both are finite, but with the drawing, and depending on how many of each variant as opposed to a table including an entry only once, as you may be thinking, you are only changing the frequency of each item to occur

If we're limiting the experience to at the table, you're right. Table, cards, basically the same thing mechanically.

But psychologically, it's quite different. The difference between rolling on a table and drawing a card is significant in terms of gameplay, because a table presents a bounded list of known quantities, while a deck of cards makes it easier to walk into the situation "blind" and get what chance has given you. There's a build-up, and a dramatic reveal, and a physical representation, and all of that facilitates a different (and often positive) interaction.

Decks can be a lot more fun than tables. And simpler, since it's easier to add or subtract options.

But that's not something the cards need to be in collectible randomized booster pack form to be able to do. You can have a deck -- even an expansible deck, with new additions coming in new boxes sets or whatever -- that serves its unique psychological purpose without the marketing gimmick of the purchase itself.

About the only unique gameplay element that randomized booster pack format adds is the fact that the unknown quantity can be greater. Because you don't know what cards are possible (essentially, you haven't looked at the deck yet), the surprise can be greater. And that can be fun. At any rate, it is a fairly unique thing. A multiplier of unknown and surprise (which are often "fun", psychologically).

Sorry. By "getting all bent out of shape," I meant " expressing a knee-jerk hostility toward a product and the company that produces it based on nothing but a predisposition against the product format and an assumption about the motives of the publisher."

Not "disliking."

I don't like playing clerics, so I didn't buy the most recent book about clerics. But I also didn't sneer at it or WotC for producing it.

I'm fine with disliking, and I respect your dislikes just as much as your likes. Just not so much with the other thing.

Some people express knee-jerk hostility toward Lady Gaga based on nothing but a predisposition against flashy costumes.

Some people express knee-jerk hostility towards D&D based on nothing but a predisposition against anything containing the word "magic" and "wizard."

Some people express knee-jerk hostility towards teh animes based on nothing but a predisposition against line art and character drama.

I bet you express knee-jerk hostility towards something or other as well, based only on your personal subjective preferences and experiences. I know I do.

You don't have to respect it, really, but trying to stop it is tilting at windmills, a Sisyphean struggle against the inevitability of the gravity of human nature. Human beings are irrational. Oh well. Weed out the ones currently being rational from the ones currently being lunatic, and focus your attentions on the former, 'cuz the latter are immune to your pleas, and will only drive you crazy, too.

 

[shadzar]

If we're limiting the experience to at the table, you're right. Table, cards, basically the same thing mechanically.

But psychologically, it's quite different. The difference between rolling on a table and drawing a card is significant in terms of gameplay, because a table presents a bounded list of known quantities, while a deck of cards makes it easier to walk into the situation "blind" and get what chance has given you.

All the rest is really made moot, especially when you build your own deck, there is no suspense, so I figure you are talking about a booster rather than a deck, and here you are still bound by the "expansion itself", rarity distribution, and the fact you only have a 1 in 8 chance of drawing ANY of the cards as you that is the best you could get, and likely cards will not be duplicated within a booster. Much less for rares if the same distribution model for WotCs other CCGs are used.

You may get the high from getting a rare, you might can make some money later; but being a rare doesnt make it better.

I doubt anyone on the WotC design team has degrees in game design or game theory because a) they were hired as writers or graphic artists, IT personnel, etc and b) the older ones have been doing it since before such degrees exist; so they likely have not touched a Psychology in Game Design course.

That being said, any psychology built into the business model came from marketing. Marketing should not be designing the game material.

While the "Christmas morning" sensation may be there, it still doesnt make the design and goal of the product any better for the game, only for marketing the product.

Actually based on watching people play D&D at LGS's and opening a pack of MtG while waiting for their turn or what have you, that "surprise!" factor could be a game disruption when they find the pack to contain nothing they could use and become upset, or that one card needed to complete the set and have to stop playing long enough to put it in a binder, find a empty deck protector for it, or something else.

 

[I'm A Banana]

While the "Christmas morning" sensation may be there, it still doesnt make the design and goal of the product any better for the game, only for marketing the product.

I basically agree, I just wanted to point out that CharlesRyan had a bit of a point when he was saying that there is a special effect there.

Hey, decks are fun. 90% of the people who have posted in any Fortune Cards thread talk about how much fun they've had with decks of cards.

It seems that the point of contention is mostly the CCG angle. Which does seem inordinately influenced by a marketing consideration.

But the collectible minis and Gamma World all blazed this trail before. Clearly they weren't colossal enough failures to convince WotC of the wrongness of their marketing gimmick.

 

[shadzar]

I basically agree, I just wanted to point out that CharlesRyan had a bit of a point when he was saying that there is a special effect there.

Hey, decks are fun. 90% of the people who have posted in any Fortune Cards thread talk about how much fun they've had with decks of cards.

It seems that the point of contention is mostly the CCG angle. Which does seem inordinately influenced by a marketing consideration.

But the collectible minis and Gamma World all blazed this trail before. Clearly they weren't colossal enough failures to convince WotC of the wrongness of their marketing gimmick.

It seemed it was being discussed mechanically. I don't know anythign really of either of the Gamma Worlds so cannot speak to them.

Here the begins to break down however. DDM was also a game. It attracted mostly the roleplayers for getting cheap pre-painted minis, from what I have read in anecdotal reports, but could also be played by those not wanting to get into one of the Warhammer games that was a lot more costly and time consuming. So you really can't compare the minis games to these cards as they have only one purpose. Use them for 4th edition D&D only. The minis could also be used for ANY other game requiring minis, random toys for kids ages X and up, etc.

Now saying this it may seem unfair to equate the same gimmick as the fortune cards to MtG a CCG since MtG is similar to the D&D CMG. But we have the unitasker same as Fortune Cards that you cant do anything else with Magic cards, The other problem then with this gimmick, dice are used as counters for MtG, but the thing needed to play it were the cards. You could buy dice, glass beads, pewter tokens, etc...but anything would work such as torn pieces of paper to supplement MtG where such is needed. So long as you had cards you could play. D&D never required anything but a random selection method and your imagination...the books help so you are playing the write game or by the same rules. You didnt need to buy minis, maps, dice, D&D Brand anything. Now the gimmick isnt being used to make people impulsively want these new Fortune Cards, but rather a sell-able format for another platform game being forced into upon one that could use something else.

I am sure you heard the complaints about Power Cards being randomized and pre-emptively people wanting complete sets, likewise people wanting to buy minis but not in CMG format, just wanted minis and the downfall of minis because WotC disagreed with its viability. Knowing this why use the gimmick again on a collection of people that has fought against it for a long time?

The gimmick failed for miniatures another D&D supplemental product. The RPG gamer just doesnt like having to purchase each week in order to play, except in the case of computer technologies, where someone else is doing work storing your data and providing you eye candy (effectively movies) during gameplay. We learned long ago that our books would last a long time o don't need constant purchases as the company needs them to be made.

Now it only stated one group of people HAD to purchase them, but it is still insulting to many that this gimmick would be tried again after all the times people have opposed it with the game right?

Not to mention you can only use a gimmick so many times before people see through it.