Fourth Edition Retro Clone

[ChainSawHobbit]

I will be sad to see Fourth Edition gone. It was a truly innovative and powerful rules set, despite its flaws. Based on the Fifth Edition playtest, it looks like the Wizards will be ignoring most of it in favour of older iterations of the game. This makes me sad.

I am willing to put aside some time and effort to create a retro-clone that is to Fourth Edition what Pathfinder is to Third. It would present a tweaked and modified version of the 4e rules along with all new fluff and art. I cannot, however, do this alone.

I am asking every 4e fan for help and support in this new endevour. I will need people to help write, advertise, and optimize this new Fourth Edition. Who's with me?

My goals include ...

• Creating a revised version of the Fourth Edition system that irons out the kinks and speeds up gameplay.
• Coming up with a cool name.
• Not pissing off the Wizards.
• Recruiting a team of artists to illustrate the game.
• Building a new implied setting that is flavourful and flexable.
• Speeding up combat and character creation.
• Giving the game away for free, or at least making it very affordable.
• Providing ongoing support for the game.
• Having it out shortly after the release of Fifth Edition.
• Make the game open, so third party publishers can produce material for it without giving anyone money.

 

[Ferghis]

I'm not sure this is a feasible thing. Mainly because it's my impression that a large number of 4e players use D&Di Compendium and the online CB in regular game play, and I'm not sure building something like the latter for your retroclone would be feasible.

My goals include ...

• Creating a revised version of the Fourth Edition system that irons out the kinks and speeds up gameplay.
  ...
• Speeding up combat and character creation.

Regarding the first point I quote, I think there are some broadly-agreed upon problems with fourth edition, but I'm not sure fixing those requires more than a short list of houserules. I could be wrong.

As for the second point I quote, I don't know that substantially speeding up combat is possible without dramatically changing the game. Just my two cents.

 

[ChainSawHobbit]

Good points. I'm not looking to do an exact replica, though. More like something between 75% and 90% the same, at least in terms of mechanics. Most of the same principals would apply, but the changes would be substantial enough that 4e content couldn't properly be used without a bit of conversion.

 

[ChainSawHobbit]

I created a Google Doc containing notes and such. It will be the main construction area for the game. Note that everything is subject to change.

It can be found Here.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6686908]ChainSawHobbit[/MENTION]
To my knowledge there are two other ENWorlders who have undertaken a similar project.

One is [MENTION=93857]C4[/MENTION] which is over here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-discussion/311937-first-4th-edition-clone.html.

The other I can't remember.

I think the idea is nuts - both from an amount of work to payoff ratio & from a legal perspective - but there are other ENWorlders who agree with what you want to do. You guys should form a club?

Great username btw

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

You may also want to look into Fourthparty - made up mostly by 4e enthusiasts from ENWorld, you will be right at home there. I wish I had more time and energy to contribute to their efforts.

 

[ChainSawHobbit]

Races could be like themes, providing alternate utility powers at various levels, and granting more and more racial powers as character level up. I would also like to make them more flexible. Perhaps each one could have a dozen or so racial traits, and players could choose two at first level, and then another every five levels?

Also, I gave the doc some more updates. There is some really good stuff in there.

 

[mkill]

[MENTION=6686908]ChainSawHobbit[/MENTION]: I wish you all the best with your efforts.

But are you sure you want to call this a retroclone? 4E came out 4 years ago, which hardly makes it "retro", and it doesn't sound like you want to "clone" it either. Which is fine, really, but I think "4E-inspired d20 system", "4E evolved", "true 4.5" or so would fit better.

Oh, and you may want to have a look at Heroes against Darkness and 13th Age, two recent D20 systems that are heavily influenced by 4E.

As for C4, it's a big undertaking, but any attempt to make it public will probably be answered with legal action from WotC. That's not a good place to be in.

As for a retroclone of 4E that is like OSRIC, rebuilding the edition as far as legally possible under OGL, I've tried to start a project called 4SRD but it currently suffers from the problem that I have zero free time to spare. Help is welcome.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

@ChainSawHobbit : I wish you all the best with your efforts.

But are you sure you want to call this a retroclone? 4E came out 4 years ago, which hardly makes it "retro", and it doesn't sound like you want to "clone" it either. Which is fine, really, but I think "4E-inspired d20 system", "4E evolved", "true 4.5" or so would fit better.

Oh, and you may want to have a look at Heroes against Darkness and 13th Age, two recent D20 systems that are heavily influenced by 4E.

As for C4, it's a big undertaking, but any attempt to make it public will probably be answered with legal action from WotC. That's not a good place to be in.

As for a retroclone of 4E that is like OSRIC, rebuilding the edition as far as legally possible under OGL, I've tried to start a project called 4SRD but it currently suffers from the problem that I have zero free time to spare. Help is welcome.

Thanks for sharing those links!

I'd heard of 13th Age, but not the other one. It looks pretty promising. I would XP you for it, but that system is currently offline. Remind me when it's back online and I will hit you up with some.

 

[Tallifer]

I created a Google Doc containing notes and such. It will be the main construction area for the game. Note that everything is subject to change.

It can be found Here.

It seems to me that a few of your ideas could make the Fourth Edition narrower in appeal. But maybe just less appealing to me.

"The combat system will be cut down a bit.
Characters will have fewer powers, especially at higher levels.
The art will be grittier and less colourful than in Fourth Edition.
Class design will draw more from Essentials than the Player’s Handbook series.
Halfling (the Gypsy kind, not the Tolkien/TSR kind)"

What I like about retro-clones like Labyrinth Lord is that they stay very faithful to their inspiration. After all their purpose is to recreate the system which their fanatics love. Likewise when the Wizards cease supporting the Fourth Edition, I would like a convenient on-line database like the Pathfinder SRD and a polished revision of the rules (deleting or updating obsolete feats, items and powers, nerfing any overpowered combinations).

The combat system and the original AEDU class system was one of the best things about the Fourth Edition when I first picked up the Players' Handbook in 2009. I can see that Essentials provided an alternative for players who do not want to be bothered with choices, but I would not want the entire system remodeled along those lines.