Fun vs balance [poll]

[Bayushi_seikuro]

I think my sentiment echos either John Wick or Matt Colville (can't remember who said it): When people say something is unbalanced, what they often are talking about is spotlight, and one character massively outshining everyone else

 

[Campbell]

I think the integrity of the play experience is a significant part of what makes any sort of play enjoyable. That doesn't mean that we need to limit the dynamism of play or not give player characters the ability to make significant changes to the environment. Quite the opposite. We just have to provide a consistent play space that allows everyone to make meaningful and disruptive decisions that change the game state.

 

[soviet]

Um, no? If this were true then every design would strive for balance, and many don't. See most of the OSR...

That presupposes firstly that these nameless games don't strive for balance, and secondly that the designs are good

 

[dragoner]

What games do or don't strive for balance? It is interesting to see the comparison.

 

[aramis erak]

When it comes to fun vs balance, where do you fall? Oftentimes in game design, the designers give up some things that may be fun in order to keep the game balanced. For example, 5e wildshape. It's fun to be able to change into animals that can swim or fly, but you're prohibited until later levels for balancing reasons (flying seems to have been determined to too powerful at low levels.)

Are you willing to give up or defer fun because balance is important?

I don't override rules in favor of "fun." If a set of rules isn't fun or of other value, I'll end the campaign and run something different.

I do ignore balance except when encoded into rules; when encoded into rules, I stick to the rules.

I will, if the group consents, tweak elements of the rules -- which I see as a social contract, mutable by group assent -- but not unilaterally. And only to address problems in flow or realism.

I will modify games for setting at onset of campaign, tho'.

 

[aramis erak]

What games do or don't strive for balance? It is interesting to see the comparison.

No attempt at balance:

• GDW, IG, and FFE versions of Traveller & 2300, T20 THB & 2320 only in that d20 did so.
• Tunnels and Trolls.
• Starships & Spacemen
• Space Opera

Serious attempts at balance -- mechanical:

• GURPS
• Hero System
• CORPS
• D&D 4E
• Streetfighter: The Storytelling game.

Serious attempts at balance -- Spotllight

• 2d20 system
  • Star Trek Adventures
  • John Carter of Mars
  • Dune
• D&D 5e
• D&D 4e
• Alien - specifically the Cinematic Adventures, to a lesser extent the core rules.

Many games make half-hearted attempts.

 

[dragoner]

No attempt at balance:

• GDW, IG, and FFE versions of Traveller & 2300, T20 THB & 2320 only in that d20 did so.
• Tunnels and Trolls.
• Starships & Spacemen
• Space Opera

Serious attempts at balance -- mechanical:

• GURPS
• Hero System
• CORPS
• D&D 4E
• Streetfighter: The Storytelling game.

Serious attempts at balance -- Spotllight

• 2d20 system
  • Star Trek Adventures
  • John Carter of Mars
  • Dune
• D&D 5e
• D&D 4e
• Alien - specifically the Cinematic Adventures, to a lesser extent the core rules.

Many games make half-hearted attempts.

I sometimes think there are two different things people are talking about with balance, is characters, and with the encounters. Though usually with players it about each other's characters ime.

 

[the Jester]

Other- the most overall fun arises from having good game balance. The two are entwined but not the same. When there is a conflict, it is only because sometimes the short term fun of one or more players is at odds with the fun created by the greater campaign on a longer term basis. The classic example is pc death- it's usually not fun when you die, but it establishes the stakes and makes the campaign as a whole feel more dangerous, enhancing the game in the long term despite the momentary bummer.

 

[Fenris-77]

That presupposes firstly that these nameless games don't strive for balance, and secondly that the designs are good

Or you could presuppose that all those games are badly designed as a rhetorical move to try and more firmly connect balance and good design as contiguous. Do you actually not know any OSR games or anything about whether or not they might be well designed or are you just trying to score points? I'm not sure.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Balance is less important to many groups; especially the more casual, social, and story focued ones.