Fun with Permanency

[bret]

I customarily make Dispel Magic the second spell my sorcerers learn, and my clerics (though not necessarily my wizards) always have one prepared. The uses of this spell are legion, and can defeat most any immobilizing enchantment on them by an enemy of equivalent level.

Curious. Looking at a Sorcerer, I was trying hard to decide if a Wand was sufficient until such time as I got 6th level spells for Greater Dispel.

Pay way too much for the wand and only pull it out when one is needed. At 50 charges, it would last quite a while.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just like with other permanent magic items, won't casting a dispel on a permanent spell simply suppress it for 1d4+1 rounds?

Permanency has a duration of "permanent" (oddly enough ).

PHB p150-151, Duration :

Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

-Hyp.

 

[twjensen]

Permanency has a duration of "permanent" (oddly enough ).

PHB p150-151, Duration :

Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

-Hyp.

Ok, it seems like there's an obvious conflict here. If Permanency can be simply dispelled, an XP cost to casting it seems REALLY harsh. (Imagine if magic items could be dispelled!)

But I could see the house rule going either way. Either it does not cost XP but next spell-caster you see is going to dispel it, OR the already mentioned common house rule that the permanent effet is simply supressed for a time.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ok, it seems like there's an obvious conflict here. If Permanency can be simply dispelled, an XP cost to casting it seems REALLY harsh.

If it makes you feel better, spells you make permanent on yourself can't be simply dispelled, they can only be complicatedly dispelled.

Or in other words, they're immune to a Dispel Magic from anyone whose caster level isn't higher than the caster level of the Permanency.

Bob the level 6 sorcerer can't dispel the permanent Protection from Arrows that Malkara the Mighty, High Mage of Xvar, Destroyer of Worlds, Bane of Elleth, and former Miss Teen Silverymoon cast on herself when she was 10th level. Bob's mentor Joe, the 11th level sorcerer, can - even though Malkara is now 15th level.

-Hyp.

 

[Andor]

You could always house rule that you don't need to pay the XP cost to renew a dispelled permanent spell. Perhaps whenever you put a permanent spell on someone a rune or tattoo or some kind of funky special effect appears on their body, and that's what the XP pays for. When you dispell it the power goes away but the effect remains. Thus you can cast the permanent spell again without shelling out the XP. Like repairing a broken magic item.

This has the added benefit of making powerful mages creepy, or at least easily identified. Although if powerful people started showing up with funky magic tattoos you can bet it would spark a fashion.

-Andor

 

[Ixidior]

Permanency has a duration of "permanent" (oddly enough ).

PHB p150-151, Duration :

Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

-Hyp.

ahh the PHB says "This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell"

does it means that the only way to avoid the permanency is being there in the right moment to dispel the permanency effect and after that, if nobody dispel the permanency spell, the target spell will become permanent and it will take all rules for permanents so it can only be supress by a short time using dispel magic?

take note that that rule only apply when you cast permanency on spells that can only target yourself.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Wow, 9 year old necro-ing.

ahh the PHB says "This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell"

I think it's pretty clear. This means if you are, lets say, level 15 when casting Permanency, the one attempting to dispel must be level 16 or higher to successfully dispel the effect. A caster of a level under 16 is guaranteed to fail in casting Dispel.

 

[Hypersmurf]

ahh the PHB says "This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell"

does it means that the only way to avoid the permanency is being there in the right moment to dispel the permanency effect and after that, if nobody dispel the permanency spell, the target spell will become permanent and it will take all rules for permanents so it can only be supress by a short time using dispel magic?

No.

You're reading it as "Can only be dispelled only when you cast the spell, by a caster of higher level than you were". But that's not what the 'when you cast the spell' clause applies to.

This application of permanency can be dispelled. Who can it be dispelled by? Only by a caster of higher level. Higher than what? Higher than you were when you cast the spell.

See the earlier example:

Bob the level 6 sorcerer can't dispel the permanent Protection from Arrows that Malkara the Mighty, High Mage of Xvar, Destroyer of Worlds, Bane of Elleth, and former Miss Teen Silverymoon cast on herself when she was 10th level. Bob's mentor Joe, the 11th level sorcerer, can - even though Malkara is now 15th level.

What level is Malkara? 15th level. What level what Malkara when she cast the spell? 10th level.

So who can dispel her permanent Protection from Arrows? Only a caster of higher level than 10th. That's the level Malkara was when she cast the spell. She's 15th level now, but that's irrelevant. Anyone 11th level or higher can dispel her PfA.

-Hyp.

 

[Tovec]

We've had fun permanencying? (and conditioning?) a lot of spells. Um.. ones that spring to mind - Fireball, Symbol of Pain, Antimagic, Silence, Greater Invisibility, most anything our DM didn't find stupid really. If it made a cheap and easy quasi-magic item, we could do it.