Game broke down over Pinning Strike

[Hjorimir]

I'm not sure bull rushing will help, unless you also ruled that the shift to follow was optional.

See PHB2, page 219, Movement Effects. In short, by RAW, the shift to follow is optional.

 

[Hjorimir]

Sometimes good DMing means letting players' powers work the way the expect them to . . .

Sometimes it does; sometimes it doesn't.

 

[eriktheguy]

Regardless of whether the shift is optional or not, the dragon cannot shift because of the immobilized status (only push, pulls, slides).

I agree that generally you have to let the players powers work as they intended, however in this case I would rule it a little extreme that the dragon cannot get rid of the immobilized condition. Stunning the characters seems sufficient, and it is a solo. This is an example of how the poorly constructed rules fail to deal with a situation and the DM comes in with some good ol' fashioned logic.

As long as you usually let the player's powers work as the rules say they do, the players shouldn't get too angry or frustrated. Make sure that whenever you make a ruling like you did that session, you discuss with the player afterwards how the power will work from now on.

 

[wildoxmoan]

Wow, this is a great thread! Thanks everyone for your input! In case anyone was wondering, I initially ruled that the stunned character lost the pin but after the break down for a rules debate, I let him continue to apply the pin. I realize now that I could've bull rushed him thus breaking the adjacent stipulation and it woud've been game on again! I'm glad that there seems to be an even split between those who think that there's a problem with the power and those who think that RAW is the only way to go. As is turns out I missed the obvious solution so I have only myself to blame for the great debate at the table!
Thanks again for all you suggestions!

 

[IanB]

Regardless of whether the shift is optional or not, the dragon cannot shift because of the immobilized status (only push, pulls, slides).

The immobilize condition ends as soon as the fighter isn't adjacent, so the dragon could shift in if it wanted; thinking about it, the bull rush would end the immobilization even if the dragon *did* then shift in, for just that reason.

 

[eriktheguy]

The immobilize condition ends as soon as the fighter isn't adjacent, so the dragon could shift in if it wanted; thinking about it, the bull rush would end the immobilization even if the dragon *did* then shift in, for just that reason.

Lol, you're right.

 

[fissionessence]

I'm glad that there seems to be an even split between those who think that there's a problem with the power and those who think that RAW is the only way to go.

Just for clarification, I want to say that I never said whether or not the power is broken or needs a 'fix' or whatever. In fact, I never even looked up the power to make a personal judgment.

I was just saying that the way players' powers work by RAW shouldn't be changed mid-combat. If you feel the power doesn't make sense, or aspects of it are too strong, then either catch it before the session, or wait until after the session. (And if you do change it, give the player a chance to re-choose the power slot.)

~

 

[eriktheguy]

Just for clarification, I want to say that I never said whether or not the power is broken or needs a 'fix' or whatever. In fact, I never even looked up the power to make a personal judgment.

I was just saying that the way players' powers work by RAW shouldn't be changed mid-combat. If you feel the power doesn't make sense, or aspects of it are too strong, then either catch it before the session, or wait until after the session. (And if you do change it, give the player a chance to re-choose the power slot.)

~

Yeah, in general this is probably a good call

 

[rainsinger]

It really distresses me that almost every day I see people on this and other forums opting to make decisions based on language in near arbitrary rules as opposed to common sense... You're the DM, if you say the dragon explodes into cotton candy and reforms on the other side of the fighter and starts humping his leg, that's how it goes... But in any realistic situation, you stick a polearm into a large beasts leg (or whatever) effectively pinning it in place, two things have to happen for that pin to remain active: A) The thing doing the pinning has to remain in place (the polearm or whatever) and B) The person applying pressure has to keep doing so.

Unfortunately, a LOT of abilities in 4E completely push realism out the window and make some pretty ridiculous assumptions about how someone might pull of a move like that. That said though, next time one of your players gets "petulant" simply respond with something like, "Ok, the dragon is still pinned, unfortunately you are so scared of him that you drop your weapon and start cowering on the ground and he eats you."

 

[keterys]

Common sense is often neither common, nor sense, and there's incredible table variation so it's not exactly a tactic often suggested on the internets.