Game session abruptly canceled

[BOAZ]

Having a little kid myself I know how unpredictable they are... Everything could be fine until you put her in the car and then, for no reason whatsoever, she has a complete freak-out! So just give the player with kids a break for christ sake. We all love to game, it's a hobby, and sometimes life gets in the way... What's the big deal?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Having a little kid myself I know how unpredictable they are... Everything could be fine until you put her in the car and then, for no reason whatsoever, she has a complete freak-out! So just give the player with kids a break for christ sake. We all love to game, it's a hobby, and sometimes life gets in the way... What's the big deal?

The big deal is that it seems like quite a few people here place a higher value on the game than they do on parenting or the concerns of parents and thier children. I'm married and have a 5 year old. My wife is just finishing up her 2nd post-grad degree and that means that I spend a lot of time looking after our child. My wife and I also work full time jobs as well. I also run a monthly D&D game. But I told my players well in advance that if something comes up concernig my child I'll try to let them know AS FAR IN ADVANCE AS I CAN.

I like D&D, but I LOVE my child and if it comes down to stressing out my child or inconveincing the people I play D&D with well the D&D group is going to lose everytime. Theyre a great group of guys and I try to accomodate them as best as I can, but my child is my child and nothing takes priority of his welfare and well being.

Also knowing how rambunctious and active my son is I'd NEVER cart him along to a game with me. I know it's different for each child, but I like to play without interruption and I also like to keep an eye on what he's doing. Not because he's a bad kid, but because he's FIVE and someone should keep a pretty constant eye on children especially in an enviornment that isnt thier own. Then again that just might be me.

 

[Umbran]

Spend $250 and buy a clue

I'll repeat it slowly, so you can write this down

Suggestions that the other people in the discussion are somehow unintelligent will stop, as of now. This is decidedly uncivil and insulting, and will not be tolerated further.

This should not need explanation, but then it should not have needed to be said, either. But if you have a question about it, please e-mail one of the mods. Our addresses are available in a thread stickied to the top of the Meta forum

 

[gizmo33]

The big deal is that it seems like quite a few people here place a higher value on the game than they do on parenting or the concerns of parents and thier children.

IMO this isn't about the game vs. kids. This is about wasting other people's time. Having priorities higher than DnD isn't the issue - everyone has higher priorities than DnD.

 

[sjmiller]

I've been rather amazed at a number of the responses here on both sides of this debate. I thought I would put in my views and see what becomes of it.

My group is very large, with a number of social/familial issues to deal with in order for us to play. Of the 9 members of the group:

• Two are divorced with child custody issues.
• Two are married with non-gaming spouses.
• One travels regularly to perform at Renaissance Festivals around the country.
• Two are married and both are in the game.
• Two are in a long-term relationship and both play in the game.

There's actually a bit of overlap in that list, but you can see we have a diverse group.

In our group the first rule is now, and always will be, your family comes before gaming. It is more important for people to spend time with their family than with the gaming group. Sure, we would like everyone to be there every time, but it's not always possible. We make an attempt to schedule things well in advance, so that people can plan around them accordingly. Life being what it is, sometimes these plans do not work out. This is especially true with small children.

Sometimes parents have to change plans at the last minute. Babysitters sometimes can't make it. Children sometimes get sick. When it comes to small children it is not always easy to bring them along to a gaming session. Childcare in an alternate location requires lots of attention diverted from the game. This can be stressful for the parent, the other games, and the host of the group. Believe me, my house is only mildly childproof, and I would be greatly stressed if young children were set loose in my house and only marginally supervised.

Life happens, and sometimes it is inconvenient. While it's great to get together and game there are times when it just can't happen. One should not get upset, or seek to place blame on anyone for the uncertainties of gaming with people with children.

 

[punkorange]

They are called emotions, and most people have them. It doesn't make them a jerk. And FWIW, I'd rather be called a jerk and stand up for myself than let someone think that canceling on me at the last minute is an acceptable practice.

Having emotions, and having control over emotions are two different things. When emotions are on the rise it's best to let them fall before dealing with the situation, or else your emotions will be speaking and not your mind.

Edit: I just want to let it known though that I completely agree no one party is out of line. When the parent's knew they couldn't make it there was no reason for them not to call.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

In our group the first rule is now, and always will be, your family comes before gaming. It is more important for people to spend time with their family than with the gaming group. Sure, we would like everyone to be there every time, but it's not always possible. We make an attempt to schedule things well in advance, so that people can plan around them accordingly. Life being what it is, sometimes these plans do not work out. This is especially true with small children.

And we don't say that you should neglect your family.

What we say that it's common courtesy to tell people that you can't make it. I doubt that the things that make your pans go awry are all matters of life and death that won't allow you to take a minute and make a phone call.

Sometimes parents have to change plans at the last minute. Babysitters sometimes can't make it. Children sometimes get sick. When it comes to small children it is not always easy to bring them along to a gaming session. Childcare in an alternate location requires lots of attention diverted from the game. This can be stressful for the parent, the other games, and the host of the group. Believe me, my house is only mildly childproof, and I would be greatly stressed if young children were set loose in my house and only marginally supervised.

I'm not disputing that.

But after all the OP has said, I really doubt that it was something like that. It was no last minute change. It was no last-minute problem with the babysitter, or the children being sick or anything.

And the kids have been to his house before. And they seemingly agreed to bring them along when they first spoke of this.

The matter is not kids being tricky and time consuming. It's people not bothering to tell people when plans don't work out.

The big deal is that it seems like quite a few people here place a higher value on the game than they do on parenting or the concerns of parents and thier children.

No one does that here. We do place a higher value on common courtesy than on convenience - especially if the inconvenience this would make is no big deal at all.

I'm married and have a 5 year old. My wife is just finishing up her 2nd post-grad degree and that means that I spend a lot of time looking after our child. My wife and I also work full time jobs as well. I also run a monthly D&D game. But I told my players well in advance that if something comes up concernig my child I'll try to let them know AS FAR IN ADVANCE AS I CAN.

Good. That's common courtesy. You do let them know in advance.

They didn't. That's just plain rude.

I like D&D, but I LOVE my child and if it comes down to stressing out my child or inconveincing the people I play D&D with well the D&D group is going to lose everytime. Theyre a great group of guys and I try to accomodate them as best as I can, but my child is my child and nothing takes priority of his welfare and well being.

Of course the child takes priority. But no one can tell me that a child would suffer if one of the parents would spend 60 seconds or less on the phone. Unless the child needs intense care around the clock, which means that you either have to hire professional care or can forget playing D&D (and have to do without lots of other leisure activities).

Also knowing how rambunctious and active my son is I'd NEVER cart him along to a game with me. I know it's different for each child, but I like to play without interruption and I also like to keep an eye on what he's doing. Not because he's a bad kid, but because he's FIVE and someone should keep a pretty constant eye on children especially in an enviornment that isnt thier own. Then again that just might be me.

It's your choice, and it's not a bad choice. Not wanting to bring your child doesn't make you a bad person.

Not wanting to bring the child, but letting the other think that you would, and then not bothering to tell him otherwise until he calls the day of the game, now that would make you a bad person, because you just treated someone like dirt.

Having a little kid myself I know how unpredictable they are... Everything could be fine until you put her in the car and then, for no reason whatsoever, she has a complete freak-out! So just give the player with kids a break for christ sake. We all love to game, it's a hobby, and sometimes life gets in the way... What's the big deal?

The big deal is that it doesn't sound like you describe. They didn't cancel last minute because the kid freaks out.

The guy suggested that they bring the kids with them if their parents couldn't take care of them, and they agreed to do that.

Or so it seemed. As it turned out, they didn't like the idea (at least it sounds that way in the original post).

One would think that it's easy to tell anyone if you don't like an idea. "Bring the kids!" "Nah, wouldn't want that. I'll let you know whether we can make it". Sounds easy.

They did not call and let him know. He had to call, and then they told him. It's quite possible that they would not have called to tell him that the game was off.

I know children need attention and care, but they are not a license to treat other people poorly, especially if treating them properly wouldn't hurt you or your children.

True, but with babysitting, you sometimes do not know if you have a babysitter until hours before you leave. This person did a good job of communicating with the person that it was not a sure thing and that they needed to find a babysitter.

Nope, he did a lousy job:

M says he'll try to get his folks to watch the kids while we play. I say its no problem if they can't. Bring the kids with. He says OK

I think everyone has to agree that this sounds like he would bring the kids should he find no babysitter. Had he said: "Nah, I'd rather not bring them with", boerngrim would have known that the game was no sure thing.

 

[Mistwell]

And we don't say that you should neglect your family.

What we say that it's common courtesy to tell people that you can't make it. I doubt that the things that make your pans go awry are all matters of life and death that won't allow you to take a minute and make a phone call.



I'm not disputing that.

But after all the OP has said, I really doubt that it was something like that. It was no last minute change. It was no last-minute problem with the babysitter, or the children being sick or anything.

And the kids have been to his house before. And they seemingly agreed to bring them along when they first spoke of this.

The matter is not kids being tricky and time consuming. It's people not bothering to tell people when plans don't work out.



No one does that here. We do place a higher value on common courtesy than on convenience - especially if the inconvenience this would make is no big deal at all.



Good. That's common courtesy. You do let them know in advance.

They didn't. That's just plain rude.



Of course the child takes priority. But no one can tell me that a child would suffer if one of the parents would spend 60 seconds or less on the phone. Unless the child needs intense care around the clock, which means that you either have to hire professional care or can forget playing D&D (and have to do without lots of other leisure activities).



It's your choice, and it's not a bad choice. Not wanting to bring your child doesn't make you a bad person.

Not wanting to bring the child, but letting the other think that you would, and then not bothering to tell him otherwise until he calls the day of the game, now that would make you a bad person, because you just treated someone like dirt.



The big deal is that it doesn't sound like you describe. They didn't cancel last minute because the kid freaks out.

The guy suggested that they bring the kids with them if their parents couldn't take care of them, and they agreed to do that.

Or so it seemed. As it turned out, they didn't like the idea (at least it sounds that way in the original post).

One would think that it's easy to tell anyone if you don't like an idea. "Bring the kids!" "Nah, wouldn't want that. I'll let you know whether we can make it". Sounds easy.

They did not call and let him know. He had to call, and then they told him. It's quite possible that they would not have called to tell him that the game was off.

I know children need attention and care, but they are not a license to treat other people poorly, especially if treating them properly wouldn't hurt you or your children.



Nope, he did a lousy job:



I think everyone has to agree that this sounds like he would bring the kids should he find no babysitter. Had he said: "Nah, I'd rather not bring them with", boerngrim would have known that the game was no sure thing.

You have a single basic assumption: that the other party did not display common curtesey by failing to call in advance to cancel once the plans changed.

Your assumption may be false, and at best you have no reason to believe that assumption right now.

Here is what the OP said: "M says he'll try to get his folks to watch the kids while we play....I call M today to find out what the plan is for the day. M tells me his parents can't take the kids..."

So we know the plans changed, and we know that Boerngrim called M early in the day of the game to find out the plan. We do not know how close to that phone call the plans changed. We do not know if the plan all along was to call on the day of the game and find out if the plan had held. We do not know that M was not planning all along to call and let him know the plans had changed, but was beat to the punch. We don't know anything about the motives or curtesey of M in this senario.

And yet, you have repeatedly made an assumption, based on your really thin inferences, and claimed your assumption was fact and responded in such a way that everyone is to assume your assumption is fact.

Until you show me how you know that M didn't plan on ever calling and telling Boerngrim that his plans had changed within a reasonable period of time after they found out that the plans have changed, just about all of your responses are not helpful or even reasonable.

And all this stuff about how he had agreed to bring the kids regardless of a babysitter is a bunch of BS I think. I am sure Boerngrim made the offer as an attempt to assure that there would be a game. And I am sure M gave some sort of vague agreement in case that backup plan had to be used. But I am equally sure that it was just that - a little discussed backup plan that, when it really came down to it with discussion between both spouses and the mood of the kids and the amount of packing up and the travel times and the bedtimes and nap times and stuff, that the backup plan really didn't work despite M's initial vague optimism to Boerngrim backup plan. But let's stop characterizig this as M's plan all along, or that he gave some sort of firm, clear, unquestioned agreement to that backup plan. Boerngrim tried to push that alternative on M in the middle of a call where they BOTH were assuming a babysitter was available. And that primary plan changed at the last minute, due to things outside M's control. At the point where the primary plan fails, calling the backup plan pushed by Boerngrim (the guy who doesn't have to do all the packing up, driving, babysitting during the game, responsibilty for the kids during the game, putting to naps, putting to bed, etc...) as a firm plan is silly. It was not a firm plan. It was not reasonable to assume that the backup plan Boerngrim had come up with was firm. It was variable - and we know that from merely the fact that it was a backup plan in case the plan everyone was initially worked on failed. Backup plans are always variable, and Boerngrim knew that at the time. He is just disappointed it didn't work out - and admits he overreacted that the backup plan didn't come through. Y'all should follow his suit. If he can see his reaction was over the top, you should be able to as well.

 

[rgard]

boerngrim,

Both parties are wrong to some extent.

1. Yes, he should have let you know sooner (or at least as soon as they made the decision) that they weren't coming.

- It's common courtesy to call the other when something stops them from being there. He dropped the ball there.

2. No, you shouldn't have given him a hard time about the cancellation.

- Some empathy helps here. Every friend and family dynamic changes when you add young kids in the mix. All old priorities go out the window. Their lives changed and as a result you don't have exactly the same relationship you had before. You should come to grips with that and if you do, you probably won't be so inclined to let this bother you.

Sorry, but you both could have handled it better.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Cowpie Zombie]

I need to put this down in writing to get it off my chest.
Here's the situation. My game group currently consists of my best friend M, his wife K and I. We play every other weekend due to his work schedule. M and I take turns DMing. They live about an hour away. I have made the drive to their house for every session for about the past year and a half. This weekend I needed to change the venue to my place because I'm feeding and letting out another friend's pets while he's out of town. I told M early last week about the needed venue change. M and wife have 2 kids age 5 and a bit over 1. M says he'll try to get his folks to watch the kids while we play. I say its no problem if they can't. Bring the kids with. He says OK. Its my understanding that this is the plan.
Today is game day. I call M today to find out what the plan is for the day. M tells me his parents can't take the kids and he and the wife don't want to bring them with, so they're not coming. I say man that sucks and we hang up.
I'm disappointed. Then I get frustrated, then I get mad. I call back to tell M that I'm mad and I think it sucks that they're cancelling our plans at the last minute. M basically tells me I'm a no good jerk for being mad. We exchange heated words, and somehow its twisted to where I'm the one who's out of line because I think people should follow through on things they have agreed to do and not cancel at the last minute. Apparently its also unreasonable for me to want to change the session to my place the odd time once a year or so.
This isn't the first time they've cancelled on me at the last minute. The other times I'd already made the drive to their place and then had the session blown. I guess I should count my blessings. At least this time I didn't have to drive an hour to be let down.

You don't have kids. You have no @#$(*@# what it's like to have kids. One day you will. Then you will feel stupid for how you reacted.

Enough said.