D&D 5E Game Theory. CR and 5E Encounter System.

pemerton

Legend
The main break in this instance is options. When you have an options, one will always be the strongest. And when you have multiple options, it becomes possible to pick all the strongest options. The more options, the more variance between the new power level and the baseline.
That's an inherent problem with multiple choices. The only way around that is cosmetic options, which would be unappealing.
I don't think options is, in itself, the right framework for the analysis. Eg having a list of 200 skills (I'm looking at Rolemaster and its derivatives, or Burning Wheel; RQ doesn't have quite so long a skill list, but it's still longer than D&D's) gives lots of options, but won't break the game.

It's the cumulative interaction of choices from multiple lists that is distinctive to D&D and generates many of the game breakage problems - one well-known combination (which may not break all games but has been said to break some) is choosing Great Weapon Master from one list, and then Bless from another, thereby counteracting the penalty that was part of the balance of GWM.

In addition to the three factors I mentioned, another that is significant for breakage of D&D combat is multiple dimensions of effectiveness. Eg GWM works by trading of one dimension of effectiveness (the roll to hit) against another (the roll for damage). The use of Bless then undoes the penalty in one dimension, while leaving the boost to the other dimension intact. Over-powered crit-fishing (which was part of some degenerate 4e builds) is a manifestation of the same phenomenon. And of course multiple dimensions of effectiveness synergises strongly with PC build by picking from many lists to produce many possibilities of breakage.

I think, if a D&D player has experienced actual or threatened game breakage, but still likes D&D, it is helpful to identify these factors that contribute to breakage in a clear and concrete manner, and then come up with some strategies to solve them: limiting the problematic elements, or prohibiting certain combinations, etc. To me it would make sense to be rather ruthless in this respect, but also fairly finely focused (eg banning all feats seems like it might be overkill, but if certain feats are breaking one's game then get rid of them - and the fact that they're not hurting others' games would be no reason at all not to get rid of them from one's own).
 

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Psikerlord#

Explorer
Here are my house rules on lingering injuries. I admit to the phrasing being a bit clumsy but it's just a house rule.

In case you think I only use a stick I also have a system for what I call "Peak condition benefits" which are things that a bit like inspiration or boons that a character can build up by spending time training or getting a blessing etc and are intrinsic to the character rather than linked to an item.

Enjoy



Lingering injuries

Every time you fail a death save roll or take a critical hit you have a chance of suffering a lingering injury. If you suffer the same number as your hit dice ( or biggest hit dice if you are multiclassed ) you automatically receive one lingering injury. Then the chance to suffer another one starts to build.
Whenever you take a long rest you roll a dice equal to your hit dice. If you roll equal or less than the chance of suffering a lingering injury you have one. After the long rest the chance of suffering a lingering injury them resets to 0.

(I.e. Bill the fighter suffered 3 critical hits and failed a death roll during the days fighting. He rests overnight and roll 1d10 ( his hit dice). If he rolls a 4 or less he wakes up with a lingering injury. If he had suffered say 12 critical hits and failed 5 death rolls he would suffer 1 lingering injury and have a 7 in 10 chance of suffering a second. If he had this happen to him and he was a monk or cleric he would have 2 lingering injuries and a 1 in 8 chance of a third )

Roll on the table below to see what injury lingers. You may suffer all except 1&8 multiple times. If you can no longer suffer the injury rolled, roll again.

Lingering injuries
1.Weakened: roll damage dice twice take the worst result.
2.Frail: hit point maximum reduced by 2 per hit dice/level
3.Scarred: disadvantage on skill checks of a particular stat (roll1d6)
4.Lame: lose 10' movement
5.Injured : take a few seconds to warm up. Disadvantage to everything for the first two rounds involved in each combat (including initiative).
6.Vulnerable: double damage from a particular damage type (GM choose one that caused the injury)
7.Feeble: disadvantage on saves of a particular type (roll 1d6)
8.Afflicted: hit points recovered from any source (healing, hit dice etc) the result is halved (round down)

Recovery from lingering injuries

You can recover from a lingering injury by making a DC 15 constitution save. After spending 3 weeks recuperating you roll. A person making a DC 15 intelligence (medicine) roll or casting a heal spell can give you advantage on this save. This time is reduced to 1 week if you have access to regular magical healing. After a success an injury resolves, you can only heal one at a time. A regenerate spell will heal all lingering injuries

Awesome, I like it. Builds increasing tension but does not bleed over into the next adventure (given 1-3 weeks healing). Makes combat more dangerous than just lost hp. I'd use it.
 

Psikerlord#

Explorer
I've seen some posters refer negatively to the so-called death spirals, so perhaps PCs that suffer a lingering injury gain an Inspiration (Desperation) Point as a counter balance or something along those lines.

I normally dont use inspiration, but I like your suggestion in this instance.
 

werecorpse

Adventurer
For those interested below is the flip side of my lingering injuries rules. Again I wish to encourage characters to spend time in town, with their master etc. for roleplaying narrative purposes, but also granting a mechanical benefit. The injuries are the stick and peak condition benefits are the carrot.

I would point out n my campaigns I'm pretty stingy with permanent magic items but generous with limited use items, this compliments my gaming philosophy.

Peak condition benefits

If the GM considers you have undertaken appropriate physical, spiritual or supernatural training, or sufficient rest and recuperation you can be rewarded with inspiration before the game starts. Alternatively you can obtain a bonus indicating you are in, or near, peak physical condition. You may not have a particular peak condition ability more than once, although you may have multiple abilities. These last until you choose to use them. If you start to rest and train again and you still have one or more peak condition benefits you keep them. You gain these benefits from high morale, recuperation and physical training (such that gaining them won't interfere with any other roleplaying downtime activities). The benefits are either allocated by the GM or rolled randomly. They are:

1. (Resurgent) you can take a short rest in 1 minute.
2. (resilient) you can spend hit dice as a reaction (maximum half level round up) to reduce damage taken from a single attack.
3. (hardy) you may automatically get a 20 on a death saving roll.
4. (agile) you may impose disadvantage on at attack against you after it has been rolled but before damage is rolled.
5. (insightful) you may re roll a non death saving throw you failed.
6. (powerful) on 3 occasions you may re roll a damage die, increasing the die by one step (maximum d12) taking the best result.
 

Ilbranteloth

Explorer
Here are my house rules on lingering injuries. I admit to the phrasing being a bit clumsy but it's just a house rule.

In case you think I only use a stick I also have a system for what I call "Peak condition benefits" which are things that a bit like inspiration or boons that a character can build up by spending time training or getting a blessing etc and are intrinsic to the character rather than linked to an item.

Enjoy



Lingering injuries

Every time you fail a death save roll or take a critical hit you have a chance of suffering a lingering injury. If you suffer the same number as your hit dice ( or biggest hit dice if you are multiclassed ) you automatically receive one lingering injury. Then the chance to suffer another one starts to build.
Whenever you take a long rest you roll a dice equal to your hit dice. If you roll equal or less than the chance of suffering a lingering injury you have one. After the long rest the chance of suffering a lingering injury them resets to 0.

(I.e. Bill the fighter suffered 3 critical hits and failed a death roll during the days fighting. He rests overnight and roll 1d10 ( his hit dice). If he rolls a 4 or less he wakes up with a lingering injury. If he had suffered say 12 critical hits and failed 5 death rolls he would suffer 1 lingering injury and have a 7 in 10 chance of suffering a second. If he had this happen to him and he was a monk or cleric he would have 2 lingering injuries and a 1 in 8 chance of a third )

Roll on the table below to see what injury lingers. You may suffer all except 1&8 multiple times. If you can no longer suffer the injury rolled, roll again.

Lingering injuries
1.Weakened: roll damage dice twice take the worst result.
2.Frail: hit point maximum reduced by 2 per hit dice/level
3.Scarred: disadvantage on skill checks of a particular stat (roll1d6)
4.Lame: lose 10' movement
5.Injured : take a few seconds to warm up. Disadvantage to everything for the first two rounds involved in each combat (including initiative).
6.Vulnerable: double damage from a particular damage type (GM choose one that caused the injury)
7.Feeble: disadvantage on saves of a particular type (roll 1d6)
8.Afflicted: hit points recovered from any source (healing, hit dice etc) the result is halved (round down)

Recovery from lingering injuries

You can recover from a lingering injury by making a DC 15 constitution save. After spending 3 weeks recuperating you roll. A person making a DC 15 intelligence (medicine) roll or casting a heal spell can give you advantage on this save. This time is reduced to 1 week if you have access to regular magical healing. After a success an injury resolves, you can only heal one at a time. A regenerate spell will heal all lingering injuries

Very cool. I like your list of effects. I may incorporate them as other options. My approach is quite similar, but I wanted to leverage existing 5e mechanics as much as possible, and also maintain the abstract approach that D&D combat uses.

We use a modified version of the exhaustion track. Injuries can occur because of a critical hit (if you fail a save) or are reduced to 0 hp (always). We have a similar condition called wounded that is like an encounter-level version of Injured. Again, you can be wounded due to a critical hit or when you reach 0 hp. Note that using the Condition Track at 0 hit points allows a creature to remain conscious longer, but has a much longer recovery time.

Note that for critical hits, the player chooses where they hit. Armor has an impact here. So if a creature is wearing a helm, they have advantage on saving throws that target that location, such as when they take a critical hit. They can, of course, go for the face, neck, whatever, but the DM determines if there's any modifier to the roll. Regardless, they have to fail by a significant amount for the effect to be serious.

The severity level of these is at the player's requests. We worked through the math to figure out what odds they wanted to survive if somebody didn't get any help, for example. While we've had a number of people wounded, we've only had a couple of injuries, and still only one death using these rules over the past 8 months or so. They respect the 0 hit point threshold much more, and naturally avoid it as much as possible. They like the idea that hit points account for skill, luck, and stamina. So they wanted something to measure your actual health. Using the condition track means you have a fixed amount of health, and the critical system allows you to bypass hit points and impact that health directly. One of our current discussions is whether we should expand that track to more than 6, especially in relation to Constitution bonuses. However, most of these saving throws are Constitution based, so better Constitutions are already accounted for.

--

CRITICAL HITS
• You can score a critical hit with a weapon attack (including natural weapons), not spell attacks.
• You score a critical hit when you roll 5 or more needed to hit and a natural 20. Some abilities reduce this threshold to a 19 or 18.
• You cannot choose to reduce a critical hit once it has been rolled. Your attack is deadly, even if it’s unintended.

The effects of a critical hit are:
• Choose the hit location.
• Roll all damage dice twice then add modifiers.
• The creature must make a Strength, Dexterity or Constitution saving throw (whichever is better). If they fail, they suffer:
o One level of wounded.
o Fail by 5. They are incapacitated.
o Fail by 10. They are injured, stunned, or unconscious (DM’s choice).
o Fail by 15 and a Natural 1. Your attack is lethal. The creature is decapitated, has their skull crushed, a strike through the heart or other vital organ, etc. It need not be instantaneous, but only long enough for a dying breath.
• The effects are cumulative. The creature can make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each round to end any conditions other than injured, unconscious or dead.

CRITICAL MISSES
You score a critical miss when you roll a natural 1.
You decide the results. Some examples are:
• Attackers have advantage.
• You suffer a minor condition as the result of equipment failure, the environment, or your own ineptitude.
• Conditions can be blinded, deafened, debilitated, disarmed, knocked prone or kneeling, etc.
• You might accidentally strike an ally.
• You could slip and fall down the stairs you’re standing on, or the railing you’re leaning on breaks, or your sword blow missed and is now stuck in a table or support, or your bowstring breaks, or halberd shaft splits.
The results should be dramatic, meaningful and situational. They will almost always provoke an opportunity attack (assuming you missed by 5 or 10 more than needed to hit).

--

CONDITION TRACK
Level Effect1
1 Disadvantage on all d20 rolls
2 Speed halved, and no reactions
3 Incapacitated, reduced to 50% of Maximum hp
4 Stunned
5 Unconscious and potential permanent effects
6 Death
Effects are cumulative.
1Specific conditions may have other effects.

WOUNDED (CONDITION TRACK)
You cannot recover hit points through non-magical means when you are wounded.
Saving Throw. Start of turn.
1 Success. Stabilized.
1 Failure. Worsen by one level.
Recovery: Heal 5 hp with magical or mundane healing to stabilize. Heal 5 hp with magical or mundane means to recover each level of wounded.
When regaining any level of wounded taken at 0 hp, make a Constitution saving throw, or suffer 1 level of injury. The DC is 15 + the worst level of wound taken.

INJURED (CONDITION TRACK)
Saving Throw. 24 hours.
3 Successes. Improve by one level.
3 Failures. Worsen by one level.
Level 5 imposes a permanent effect.

--

DROPPING TO 0 HIT POINTS
When you drop to 0 hit points, you are wounded. Any hit against you causes one additional level of wounded for every 5 points of damage.

EXCESS DAMAGE
Excess damage can kill you instantly. When damage reduces you to 0 hit points you suffer an additional level of wounded if the remaining damage equals or exceeds ½ of your maximum hit points.
If the excess damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer four levels of wounded.
If the excess damage exceeds double your hit point maximum, you are killed instantly.

RECOVERY
When you recover from being dropped to 0 hit points, you suffer a level of injury equal to the worst level of wounded you reached while at 0 hit points.

--

HEALING

MEDICINE SKILL
You can stabilize a creature (stop the saving throws) for wounded.
You can reduce the effects, but not the severity, of an injury by 1 step. This can only be done once per injury.

LESSER RESTORATION (2nd level spell)
You can reduce the effects, but not the severity, of an injury by 1 step. This can only be done once per injury.

RESTORATION (3rd level spell)
You alter the ratio for recovery of Injured (and Diseased) to 4 failures and 3 successes. The ratio can't be any greater than that.

GREATER RESTORATION (5th level spell)
Grants advantage on save to recover Injured or Diseased (still only one save per day).

REGENERATION (8th level spell)
Heals Injured or Diseased.
 

I don't think options is, in itself, the right framework for the analysis. Eg having a list of 200 skills (I'm looking at Rolemaster and its derivatives, or Burning Wheel; RQ doesn't have quite so long a skill list, but it's still longer than D&D's) gives lots of options, but won't break the game.
Correction: options with meaningful mechanical differences.
Having infinitive flavorful options means little.

It's the cumulative interaction of choices from multiple lists that is distinctive to D&D and generates many of the game breakage problems - one well-known combination (which may not break all games but has been said to break some) is choosing Great Weapon Master from one list, and then Bless from another, thereby counteracting the penalty that was part of the balance of GWM.
True. Because options.
The more choices you have, there better chance for a combination. And the greater your power with every subsequent choice. Doubly so if the options can synergies.

The three aspects you cite are less causes and more symnptoms. They’re places the game can noticeably break. They’re the “how” something can be broken, when they “why” is the cause.
 


I wouldn't agree that skill choices are meaningless. They make for pretty significant difference between characters.

Again, the key word is mechanical.
Does the skill choice have an impact on the mechanics of the game system and not just the plot? Because breaking a narrative and breaking a game system are two entirely different things.
 

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