GAMING FRONTIERS: A $20 magazine! Are they nuts?

[JohnNephew]

I think the good folks at GF are brave to give it a shot. For the costs involved in publishing what they're publishing, the price is cheap. Sure, not all the articles may be to one's liking; but not all the contents of a WotC class book are going to be used in any given game, either.

If the market can't bear the price for the value (IMHO, *high* value) they offer, then it will be a shame, and they should simply close their doors (hopefully before losing significant money) and congratulate themselves on fighting the good fight.

I disagree with the notion that you have to price under the market leader to get traction. Personally, I'm accustomed to willingly paying a lot more per issue for the magazines I subscribe to than I would if I subscribed to "market leaders" like Time or Newsweek -- because I recognize that they provide specialized content. While idiotic editorials in major news weeklies can raise my blood pressure as much as any simplistic and knee-jerk anti-Postmodern-philosophy rant in the Skeptical Inquirer, the former will not give me an interesting survey of the scientific examination of bigfoot claims, or the details on how spiritualist con artists worked their trade in the 19th century. Likewise, my subscription to Speculum, the journal of the Medieval Academy of America, runs me something on the order of $20 per issue. And I *know* I don't put all of its articles to use. ;-) (Every once in a while, though, my back issue collection is just the place to go for ideas, and certainly for authentic names!)

GF needs to find the magic point where content/value and price converge on a viable market that will pay up for what they can offer. Even if they succed, it's true, however, that any individual gamer may not wind up being part of that audience.

 

[ThomasBJJ]

That GF "periodical" was pretty damn thick, and looked really really good, but yeah $20 was more than I was willing to spend. Reason being that a module or source book covers a more narrow scope of subjects, so you are either interested in the subject matter and buy it, or not and don't.
GF have several topics that I wanted to read, but there were also just as many that were not appealing to me. so expecting me to pay for it all in one large chunk is too much to expect. IMO, break it down into a monthly, or even bi-monthly mag and you might just have something. There will be people who will subscribe or buy every issue, and some that will check out the content and be selective which issues to buy based on that. Also, even if the cost is the same or even a little more for say 12 issues than it would be for the exact same page count in 4 issues, I think it feels better to spread out the cost.

BTW, I'm all for a independant D20 magazine that is similar to Dragon or Dungeon. Hell, I'd subscribe.

Thomasbjj@hotmail.com

 

[trancejeremy]

BTW, I'm all for a independant D20 magazine that is similar to Dragon or Dungeon. Hell, I'd subscribe

There is one, I believe. Campaign. First one was self-published, I think, and it was picked up by Fast Forward Games.


Anyway, personally, GF is a nice idea, but far too pricey for me. There's a ton of d20 stuff I want that I can't afford to buy yet, so a $20 pseudo-magazine is not too appealing...

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I never said they should price under the market leader--though someone else mentioned that--I think that they should price on par with the market leader. That's why I recommended changing it to make it viable to produce at $6 per issue, the same as WoTC charges for its mags. If it was as much as WoTC's, then you could buy Dragon, Dungeon and Gaming Frontiers in one month for $20... not a bad deal.

As it is, I think United Playtest's business strategy is flawed, and overly optimistic--very few will spend $20 on a magazine. And no matter what spin U.P. tries to put on it, everyone will always think of it as a magazine. It's impossible to overcome the public's perception in this regard.

Unlike Mr. Nephew's opinion that they should be commended for trying this $20 format, I think they should be smacked upside the head and told to come back down to earth, before it's too late! GF has potential, GF is put out by talented people, but ultimately GF will fail unless drastic changes are implemented immediately, IMO. It may *still* fail even if they are. Publishing is a tough racket, and a very expensive gamble. I wish U.P./GF luck, but I won't be throwing any dollars their way until the price comes down to $5-6 per issue.

 

[JohnNephew]

Unlike Mr. Nephew's opinion that they should be commended for trying this $20 format, I think they should be smacked upside the head and told to come back down to earth, before it's too late! GF has potential, GF is put out by talented people, but ultimately GF will fail unless drastic changes are implemented immediately, IMO. It may *still* fail even if they are. Publishing is a tough racket, and a very expensive gamble. I wish U.P./GF luck, but I won't be throwing any dollars their way until the price comes down to $5-6 per issue.

Well, to continue to argue the other side of it, ;-), I think they'd be putting out a very different magazine at $5 or $6. For one thing, they probably'd have to cut the color everywhere but the cover. For another, the way magazines charge so little is by making the bulk of their revenues on advertising. How much advertising? Well, I'd say probably about 50% of the space between the covers, plus the inside and back covers, maybe more. So, supposing they made a 64-page magazine, you'd actually be getting about 32 pages of content, tops. On a content-per-dollar basis, you'd probably come out behind.

The bigger problem is that even attempting this model puts you in a chicken-and-egg conundrum -- if you don't have the advertisers to cover your production costs, you can't produce the magazine and sell it cheaply to get the big distribution; if you don't have the proven big distribution, you can't get the advertisers or get them to pay what you need. (I have the impression that most of the alternative magazines in this industry have shut as a result of the vanishing of ad dollars -- the twin difficulties of getting ad buys in the first place, and then actually getting people to pay you.) I would never build a business plan that depends on ad dollars from the game industry.

So, yeah, I strongly commend the format and approach. Not because I'm sure it works, but because it appears they looked at the problem of why all the other alternative RPG magazines have folded and horribly mutilated their creators'/investors' finances along the way. They could have tried to do the same thing but somehow hope it will magically WORK for them when it didn't for plenty savvy business folks like White Wolf (their eponymous magazine) and AEG (Shadis), as well as countless others over the decades. Instead, they questioned the basic assumption -- that a game magazine publishing business plan should be like other mass market magazine publishing -- and decided to start right off with a completely different approach, and see if that works instead. I think a lot of the great successes of this business came by throwing conventional wisdom out the door. (Some spectacular failures came that way, too, mind you...)

Like I said, I pay $20 a quarter for my medievalist journal, and they don't even have multi-color printing on the *cover*. Clearly they have "magazine" perception issues to face, and that's their biggest challenge. As far as value goes, if people were comparing it to collected works in the D20 sourcebook arena rather than to Dragon and Dungeon, I think they'd fare a lot better.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Good points, John. I still think GF will fail due to the $20 price tag, but it would probably flop at $6, too. I just don't see enough of a market for a gaming magazine not put out by WoTC or GW.

 

[Mistwell]

Well, If I see it in my game store, I will buy it. And as soon as I do, I'll provide y'all with a full review of the issue (something nobody here has done, yet).

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Hmmm...I believe that John Nephew is right on target. Magazines are "cheap" because they rely on half the page count being filled up by advertisements. The less advertisements, the less money from the advertisers, which in turn needs to be recouped by increasing the cover price. This model is predicated on what the target audience desires--if it is a professional, full-color magazine, with dense articles, and far less advertising--that level of production quality is going to cost, and cost more. It's like the difference between Tuna and Swordfish. They are both fish--but different in quality. Tuna is comparatively cheap, while Swordfish is considerably more expensive. One cannot have Swordfish at Tuna prices. Tuna prices equals Tuna quality. Perhaps that is what the Gaming Frontiers are attempting to establish.

For example, I purchase a professional Historical Journal--The Military History Quarterly for $9.99. Over ten bucks after taxes. It's an expensive magazine, but it is full-color, with cool maps, and dense, quality writing written by acknowledged Historians and scholars, in academic style, and fully cited with top-notch bibliographies. I can read from it, use articles and quotes in an authoritative manner with confidence, and cite the journal as a source-- because the authors, and the magazine editors have done their homework and have a proven track record and high standard of reliable scholarship. It certainly isn't Time, or Newsweek. But it seeks to reach a different audience as well. Maybe GF does as well? I'm not sure that I could afford to spend $20 on GF, but, as they say, it is more of a game supplement than a magazine. I haven't seen it yet, so I can't discuss its qualities. Hopefully for them, they can find a stable market.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Well, If I see it in my game store, I will buy it. And as soon as I do, I'll provide y'all with a full review of the issue (something nobody here has done, yet).

Glad to see you've got $20 to burn. Can you pay my rent while you're at it?

 

[DMaple]

Hmm I'm interested but looking at the content...

Issue 1
Oone Roleplaying Games: Exclusive preview of the Seven Avengers Saga
Atlas Games: Exclusive outtake from Touched by the Gods (reprinted from the Gaming Frontiers free preview)
Bard's Productions: The Tale of Grakis, fiction set in the world of the Race for Retribution series.
Bastion Press: 4 new monsters from the monster book Minions
Black Arrow Games: Exclusive preview of the all-new space opera campaign setting Interstellar Journeys
Goodman Games: Exclusive excerpt from Dinosaur Planet: Broncosaurus Rex
Green Ronin Publishing: New fiction set in the city of Freeport
Guildhouse Games: Veiled Threat, an adventure for 5th level characters
Hammerdog Games: The Grande Temple of Jing, an adventure for character levels 4-6
Mongoose Publishing: Exclusive outtake from Gladiator: Sands of Death for use in your game
Mystic Eye Games: Fiction from the Hunt: Rise of Evil campaign setting
Paradigm Concepts: Exclusive excerpt detailing a prestige class from Codex Arcanis
Privateer Press: Exploring Corvis: The Falling Star - all-new material for use with Iron Kingdoms campaign setting
Skeleton Key Games: The Tomb of Obrosh, an adventure for character levels 8-10
Thunderhead Games: 9 new magic items from the creators of Bluffside: City on the Edge
Troll Lord Games: Exclusive excerpt from the upcoming Codex Germania
Vox Poplar Concepts: Project: World X - a new venture with Gaming Frontiers that allows you to create your own d20 world, with a new map from master cartographer Brian Dalrymple
Plus: The first installment of our artist gallery with a'lis, a Rob Kuntz interview, new dinosaur listings, cartoons from Tony Mosely, editorials, reviews, the new Role of History column from Andrew Hind, a column on House Rules and more.

We have 8 preview or excerpts from different companies, sounds like long adverts to me, I imagine most of this information is not useful to someone not using that companies setting.

Three works of fiction, which aren't exactly what you call 'crunchy bits' and probably fill a few pages.

Three adventures.

Two crunchy bits, new monsters or items, etc.

Something that "that allows you to create your own d20 world" hmm like I wasn't allowed to before.

the "Plus" stuff actually seems more interesting to me.

It doesn't look too great but its hard to say without seeing it.