General Discussion Thread II

[rgordona]

I'm not sure this agreeing to be a Judge was such a good idea. It reminds me of my time playing Nomic but maybe that is just because there are so many proposals at the moment. :>

Could someone remind me what the rules for acceptance of a proposal are? It looks like 3 yes votes is a pass but how many no votes is a fail.

(Historically it looks like a consensus quickly becomes apparent which seems the most sensible way.)

 

[Hand of Vecna]

I'd think a majority vote would do. (We're what, 7 judges now? 4 out of 7?)

 

[Velmont]

I think we should go as LEW and LEB works.

• If the majority is voting YES (4 out of 7), the proposal is accepeted.
• If the majority is voting NO (4 out of 7) the proposal is refused.
• If there is 3 votes more votes in one way (With 7 judges it would mean 3 vs. 0), the proposal can be accepted/refused 48 hours after the last vote needed. That way, if there is only 3 actives judges during a week, a proposal could pass. In doubt, a judge can always come during the 48h, go against the other judges and put the approval on hold until he look more closely at the proposal.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Sounds like a plan to me

 

[Hand of Vecna]

I'm saying that the +30 bonus is all from Disguise. Disguise is a Charisma-based skill. It thus absolutely must come from the innate charismatic ability to pull off the impersonation, since if it all had to do with meticulous eye for detail, in would be Int-based. Also, 10 minutes is really pushing it for putting on a uniform right. And what if it was a uniform that the person actually did know how to wear?

Here's a good example--let's say that one of our young Japanese supers wanted to pretend to be a Japanese schoolgirl using Disguise. She knows how to wear a Japanese schoolgirl uniform--she's worn it before all the time, although she isn't technically a schoolgirl right now. She has very high disguise, 15 ranks and 40 Charisma for a +30 to Disguise. Are you going to tell her that she has the same chance of disguising as a Japanese schoolgirl as Joan Schome with +0 Disguise (10 Charisma, and no ranks) unless she has 10 minutes to do something unspecified?

No, I'm saying she has to take as much time (since a Disguise check, even if used untrained, takes 10 minutes; Morph specifically gets away from this because of the Activation time of the power). The one with +30 modifier will be far and away better at it, though, since she's got a higher total modifier. The one with +30 has a better chance at pulling off the deception than the +0 person, but both have to take the same amount of time.

And I will grant 10 minutes could be pushing it fro just putting on clothes, but for Disguise's default/assumed us -- making yourself up to look like another person -- it's appropriate.

 

[Victor_Von]

No, I'm saying she has to take as much time (since a Disguise check, even if used untrained, takes 10 minutes; Morph specifically gets away from this because of the Activation time of the power). The one with +30 modifier will be far and away better at it, though, since she's got a higher total modifier. The one with +30 has a better chance at pulling off the deception than the +0 person, but both have to take the same amount of time.

And I will grant 10 minutes could be pushing it fro just putting on clothes, but for Disguise's default/assumed us -- making yourself up to look like another person -- it's appropriate.

So, here's a question: how would you suggest a character like Clayface-- known for his instantaneous disguises-- should work? I don't really have much in the way of concrete suggestions, but it strikes me as something that should be possible.

Hmm... I guess I do have a starting concept. Enhanced Skill (Disguise) as a power or AP, with Improvised Tools as a Feat. Whether you can improvise tools on a skill that requires them is an interesting question, though.

If I were GMing this at home-- thank God I'm not-- I might allow certain simple disguises to require less time, and certain items-- uniforms, dresses, etc.-- to count as tools. Of course, if it's a complicated uniform, getting every detail just right might take more than just a couple seconds. The image of Indiana Jones getting chewed out by the Nazi officer in Raiders comes to mind. He passed his Disguise test, barely, but he still looked like crap. ;-)

 

[Hand of Vecna]

So, here's a question: how would you suggest a character like Clayface-- known for his instantaneous disguises-- should work? I don't really have much in the way of concrete suggestions, but it strikes me as something that should be possible.

Hmm... I guess I do have a starting concept. Enhanced Skill (Disguise) as a power or AP, with Improvised Tools as a Feat. Whether you can improvise tools on a skill that requires them is an interesting question, though.

If I were GMing this at home-- thank God I'm not-- I might allow certain simple disguises to require less time, and certain items-- uniforms, dresses, etc.-- to count as tools. Of course, if it's a complicated uniform, getting every detail just right might take more than just a couple seconds. The image of Indiana Jones getting chewed out by the Nazi officer in Raiders comes to mind. He passed his Disguise test, barely, but he still looked like crap. ;-)

Clayface has Shapeshift, which could be used to gain lots of ranks in Morph (and even if not using Morph per se, Kenson's said that when you use Shapeshift to assume the appearance of something else, you automatically get a Disguise bonus as if using Morph of the same rank).

And, yeah, the whole point of the Improvised Tools feat is to be able to improvise tools needed for "Needs Tools" skills.

 

[Victor_Von]

Clayface has Shapeshift, which could be used to gain lots of ranks in Morph.

And, yeah, the whole point of the Improvised Tools feat is to be able to improvise tools needed for "Needs Tools" skills.

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

So, would a uniform or something else like that count as "tools" in some instances? Open to GM interpretation, of course.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

So, would a uniform or something else like that count as "tools" in some instances? Open to GM interpretation, of course.

I'd say so. In fact, if it's an actual uniform (say, taken from a KO'd guard), I'd say that it's the perfect tool and would give a +2 bonus.

 

[Rystil Arden]

No, I'm saying she has to take as much time (since a Disguise check, even if used untrained, takes 10 minutes; Morph specifically gets away from this because of the Activation time of the power). The one with +30 modifier will be far and away better at it, though, since she's got a higher total modifier. The one with +30 has a better chance at pulling off the deception than the +0 person, but both have to take the same amount of time.

And I will grant 10 minutes could be pushing it fro just putting on clothes, but for Disguise's default/assumed us -- making yourself up to look like another person -- it's appropriate.

Ah, but you only lose your bonus from Disguise skill when you lack 10 minutes, so +30 girl winds up with +0 to Disguise. Joan Schmoe also has +0 because she never had the skill. It just seems absurd to me. Then again, for my character that it sort of affects, as soon as I saw that link to SK's post, I realised that next time I get PP, I need to either take away her Disguise ranks for plenty of Morph ranks or just get Quickness (Physical--limited to one thing only: Disguise) to offset the nonsensical ruling. Until then, I don't mind because it isn't a major aspect of the character, but I feel sorry for those to whom it was if they didn't get the chance to edit.