George RR Martin to his detractors

[Blastin]

Heh....I got his anthologies on audiobook. Collections of his shortstories and novellas across the years with these great commentaries he recorded himself in between.
Most of the stories were pretty damn good, but one thing that came up again and again in his comments between the stories was his writers ADD. He must have mentioned "I wrote this story with the intent of writing a bunch more with the same characters, but then never did" about ten times. He got distracted by new projects constantly and seemed to only stick with one thing for more than one story when he was VERY passionate about it, he REALLY needed the money, or was very pressured by a publisher.
I worry that he looks at continuing this series as work now and not enjoyment. I hope his involvement with the proposed HBO series renews his interests. While I would be dissapointed if he never finsihed the series, my life would go on....

 

[Blastin]

double post

 

[Banshee16]

The logic behind why celebrities aren't truly victims is inescapable: they are in a hell of their own choosing. You want fame-based success, you know what the price of admission is well beforehand. Meanwhile, there are millions of other folks who are genuine victims of circumstance, with real problems like disease and poverty and mass slaughter--stuff that paparazzi and "nerdrage" don't hold a candle to. Guess there's not much satisfaction in sticking up for a bunch of stinking nobodies.

While celebrities do live somewhat in a hell of their choosing, I don't think that their fame removes their right to a private life. Personally, when I hear about a celebrity punching out a papparazzi, I find it funny. "Stick that camera in my face one more time, and I'll put it where the sun don't shine".

They're people, same as any of us, and frankly, if any of us were being followed around by 300 photographers who were picking apart every step we took, and photographing it, I'm willing to bet many of us would feel an awful temptation to go medieval on them.

On the topic of George R.R. Martin, I'm sure a little of his motivation is gone....he's likely made decent money off the books, and doesn't need the next book as much. Or, maybe, he's legitimately trying to finish it, and it's simply that, when he added this extra middle sequence to the series, he messed up his plotting, and he's really just finding that opening Pandora's Box, with this extra novel (two novels) has resulted in the creation of a bunch of loose ends he needs to tie up, so he can take us into the second half of the series.

At least, I hope that's what's going on.

At this point, it's been so long since the last book that I'm beginning to forget what was occurring.

I have no idea how he's going to have HBO do a series, given he hasn't finished writing the books yet. Unless he picks up the pace for the final few books, it'll likely be HBO writers making things up as they go along, or writing scripts based on rough outlines..

He's got the right not to do another novel in the series.....it would just suck, however, because they are soooooo good.

At least there's time to try other authors as a result.

Banshee

 

[Vocenoctum]

While celebrities do live somewhat in a hell of their choosing, I don't think that their fame removes their right to a private life. Personally, when I hear about a celebrity punching out a papparazzi, I find it funny. "Stick that camera in my face one more time, and I'll put it where the sun don't shine".

While I do agree with you, for the most part this isn't folks stalking him. I mean, he's announcing his private life, and complaining when folks waiting for closure ask "what about us?". Are some of them out of line? certainly so, but that doesn't mean there's no reason folks have become impatient.

Also, I think what a lot of these type of threads overestimate is how unimportant these internet comments are, really.

A: "The book is still not ready"
B: "man, get off your ass and do it already!"
C:"you need to back off, its his right to move at his own pace"
B then follows with a treatise on the responsibilities of an author to provide that which was promised.

That doesn't mean B is hawking the internet every night, fuming over his keyboard. It just means when he sees a post about it, he vents a bit and moves on.

 

[Zaukrie]

I always love it when athletes (or in this case authors) get annoyed with the passion of their fans. Without that passion, they'd not be rich in the first place. If you want them to cheer you and buy your product when its going well, you need to accept the fact that when you don't deliver what they want, that that passion will be turned to boos. But, they never seem to remember that w/o that passion in the first place, they'd all be sitting in cubes like the rest of us (or working retail, or whatever) instead of getting to do what they love (something that kindles some passion in others).

 

[Steel_Wind]

I have no idea how he's going to have HBO do a series, given he hasn't finished writing the books yet. Unless he picks up the pace for the final few books, it'll likely be HBO writers making things up as they go along, or writing scripts based on rough outlines..

Well. I think that GRRM counts it out this way...

By the time the pilot is actually filmed and shown, there will be five books in print.

Assuming the series is then greenlit and stays in production at the rate of one novel = one season a year...and actually gets to the end of book five where book six is needed - he'll be done book 6 which will already be out in print by that point.

And that's a VERY big assumption. The chances of that level of success happening, given HBO's past track record with Rome, would appear to be vanishingly small.

But...yes, it could happen. If so, then...it's a bit touch and go whether or not book 7 gets resolved in print before the series or whether it's the series getting resolved before the book. (My bet - series gets filmed before book is submitted for publishing), but series *with* book released shortly thereafter.

But all of this assumes first that HBO actually green lights and keeps filming a pilot plus six YEARS of a fantistorical series, that they have not yet even greenlit past a pilot. Only then does this giant shark and its ominous music get close to GRRM's boat.

I also expect that GRRM figures that the end of a monumental series is a lot easier to write than the middle. There will be far fewer plot threads to keep track of by the time he gets to Book seven of aSoIaF. The beginning and endings are much easier than the middle of any large work to write.

My guess is that GRRM has thought about pretty much all of the above when he has mused on the "what if the HBO series actually passes me" conundrum.

 

[Fast Learner]

I always love it when athletes (or in this case authors) get annoyed with the passion of their fans. Without that passion, they'd not be rich in the first place.

That assumes that they reason they write (or play basketball or whatever) is to get rich. Some of them sure, but birds gotta fly and fish gotta swim. Martin may well write in order to write, because he loves it. You (or me) paying him money for a past work doesn't mean he needs to write to make you (or me) happy. I didn't pay him for future work, I paid him for what I got.

 

[Banshee16]

That assumes that they reason they write (or play basketball or whatever) is to get rich. Some of them sure, but birds gotta fly and fish gotta swim. Martin may well write in order to write, because he loves it. You (or me) paying him money for a past work doesn't mean he needs to write to make you (or me) happy. I didn't pay him for future work, I paid him for what I got.

True. However...

I think that there's a certain "social contract". He wrote the first book, as the first in a series, announced to be, what....five books? And now it'll be seven? In any case, he wrote the first book, people loved it, and began purchasing more of the books, based on the fact that they enjoyed each book as they went along, and, because they know there are more coming, and they want to find out how the story ends.

Then, he dramatically slows down, loses interest, gets writers block, who knows....?

He doesn't owe anything more than what he's written, and what the consumers/readers have purchased. However, many of them have continued purchasing the books, contingent upon the fact that they're part of a larger series, and that he's working on finishing the series.

I ask you this......do you think his fan base would have been anywhere near as large after the first book if he said right at the beginning "well, this is going to be a great series, it's planned for five books, but you know, I think I've changed my mind and don't feel like finishing it, and I'll just leave you hanging about the ending."

If he'd come out and said that at the beginning, I likely wouldn't have continued reading the series. I'm sure many others wouldn't have either.

That having been said, the man's got a life, and a right to do what he wants. He's not beholden to anyone (aside from any contracts he may have signed with his publisher dictating X many books in the series, etc.). Life's about more than work, as I've been reminded in the last several months, and maybe he's lost interest. I don't know.

I like to believe that people mean well, and mainly try their best, so I'll just hope that he's a guy who likely had a plan from book 1, added an extra piece into the middle, and has gotten lost trying to figure out how to tie the beginning to the end, but is legitimately trying.

To tie it all into the discussion of fame, however......it's a nice problem to have, to have thousands of people waiting with baited breath for the next novel you write to be finished. There are worse problems to have in life, despite the rudeness of some fans who feel inclined to be insensitive on internet message boards.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

While I do agree with you, for the most part this isn't folks stalking him. I mean, he's announcing his private life, and complaining when folks waiting for closure ask "what about us?". Are some of them out of line? certainly so, but that doesn't mean there's no reason folks have become impatient.

Also, I think what a lot of these type of threads overestimate is how unimportant these internet comments are, really.

A: "The book is still not ready"
B: "man, get off your ass and do it already!"
C:"you need to back off, its his right to move at his own pace"
B then follows with a treatise on the responsibilities of an author to provide that which was promised.

That doesn't mean B is hawking the internet every night, fuming over his keyboard. It just means when he sees a post about it, he vents a bit and moves on.

It's very easy to see the bad apples, and forget that most people have better manners, and aren't riding him. The rude people tend to stand out, while there are probably 100 or 1000 people who'll read the book when it comes out, maybe forget it's coming out, see it on the shelf in a few years, and resume the series etc. But those people don't tend to post nearly as much....that's just a minority, so I'm sure GRR Martin is reacting to a vocal minority.

It's frustrating waiting, but I've moved on. As Nicholson once said......"Goozefrabba"....

Banshee

 

[Fast Learner]

True. However...

--- SNIP excellent analysis ---

I certainly wouldn't argue that people bought the book as part of a series, with the expectation that if an author begins a series, he'll work to finish it.

I suppose I'd just hope that purchasers would realize that series don't finish for all kinds of reasons. These include the death of the author, cancellation by the publisher, and yes, authors being unable to finish it due to a wide variety of problems, from illness and other personal life issues to a loss of interest or ability to write the rest of the series. Knowing that it happens, me, I buy a book in a series hoping the book is great. Yes, I also want the series to be great, but I know full well that there are a dozen or more reasons why there won't be a full series.

So, I agree that there's a social contract that the author will try to finish the series, but not that he guarantees that he will.

I like to believe that people mean well, and mainly try their best, so I'll just hope that he's a guy who likely had a plan from book 1, added an extra piece into the middle, and has gotten lost trying to figure out how to tie the beginning to the end, but is legitimately trying.

Aye, I suspect that's exactly the case. That and the very understandable pressure of suddenly writing The Greatest Fantasy Series In Modern Times, which would screw up any most any writer.