Getting the most out of Summon Nature's Ally

[Phasics]

It's not worth it at level 1. Around level 3 it starts getting useful.

The best creature on the Summon NA II list is hippogriffs because they get three attacks per round. Not very powerful attacks it's true, but they add up.

The best creature on the Summon NA III list is the dire wolf, for its insane strength score and free ability to trip opponents. It has a lousy AC but who cares? It has enough hitpoints to last a few rounds, and that's really all you need.

It might be worth summoning 1d3 hippogriffs instead of one dire wolf. It's definitely better to summon 1d3 dire wolves than anything on the SNA IV list. (Well, in terms of combat power. A unicorn is nice for spells.)

is 1d4+1 ever a better than 1d3 , apart from when you just want as much meat between you and the otherguy ? or are the creature you summon (2 lv lower just going to be totally ineffective vs the monsters you will probbably face) I guess the only exception here is if you get attack by a huge group and just need numbers of your own ?

 

[Christian]

It's definitely better to summon 1d3 dire wolves than anything on the SNA IV list. (Well, in terms of combat power. A unicorn is nice for spells.)

Really? I though that the giant croc looked pretty decent. But my druid's at 19,000 XP, so I haven't had an opportunity to test that theory yet. (Definitely agree on the SNA III list--I've summoned more dire wolves than you can shake a stick at. Not that I recommend shaking a stick at a dire wolf--good way to lose an arm. )

 

[Moon-Lancer]

The unicorn trick of SNA is something that needs to be fixed. Ta-da! A 4th level spell that gives you cure light wounds 3/day, cure moderate wounds 1/day, and neutralize poison 1/day; no need to ever prepare neutralize poison! Plus a constant magic circle against evil. At least its greater teleport doesn't work (it only works in the unicorn's home...wherever the heck a summoned unicorn's home is, it certainly isn't wherever the druid summoned it).

well if you summon in a forest, its quite likely your in its home. At the very least, in a ravenloft
game. I dont think it needs fixed. Its not very good in combat, as thier concentration kindof sucks, and alwayse blow the spell, well everytime i have tried for it. So it is not a very good solution in combat. So it has its balance.

 

[Jack Simth]

The unicorn trick of SNA is something that needs to be fixed. Ta-da! A 4th level spell that gives you cure light wounds 3/day, cure moderate wounds 1/day, and neutralize poison 1/day; no need to ever prepare neutralize poison! Plus a constant magic circle against evil. At least its greater teleport doesn't work (it only works in the unicorn's home...wherever the heck a summoned unicorn's home is, it certainly isn't wherever the druid summoned it).

Summoned critters aren't permitted to use their own teleportational abilities anyway; it's under Conjouration(Summoning) in the Magic Overview. It doesn't actually matter if you just Summoned the Unicorn from right over there (other than it might be a while before it's back... my, that might make for an interesting plot....) and you're still in it's forest, it can't use it's teleportational abilities while summoned. Called, yes, Summoned, no.

So let's see, a 4th level Druid spell, cast spontaneously, gives the Druid access to:

Cure Light Wounds *3 (1st level Druid spell) for 3d8+15 healing over the course of four rounds (one to Summon, three to Cast)
Cure Moderate Wounds (2nd level Druid spell) for 2d8+5 healing on the fifth round
Neutralize Poison (3rd level Druid spell).

So a 4th level spell and a full-round casting time plus a bit of wait time for the effect to finish up give the Druid access to a bit more healing than he'd have otherwise - instead of casting Cure Serious as a standard action for 3d8+7 (minimum caster level for Summon Nature's Ally IV), he can take five total rounds for 5d8+20 (but can do other things in rounds 2-5). And it's blocked by anything that stops dimensional travel. And it can't be used in an environment that won't support a unicorn - it is a Large creature, after all.

Meh, not overly unbalanced; a bit more effecient outside of combat, but otherwise, not overly much so. Gets a little interesting when you're talking about Summon Nature's Ally V for 1d3 unicorns, or Summon Nature's Ally VI for 1d4+1, but for the most part, I don't think it will cause much in the way of trouble.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Really? I though that the giant croc looked pretty decent. But my druid's at 19,000 XP, so I haven't had an opportunity to test that theory yet. (Definitely agree on the SNA III list--I've summoned more dire wolves than you can shake a stick at. Not that I recommend shaking a stick at a dire wolf--good way to lose an arm. )

I'd rather have one giant croc than one dire wolf.

But I'd rather have two dire wolves than one giant croc, and I'd definitely rather have three dires wolves than one giant croc.

I figure two out of three odds is good.

Also, SNA is a close range spell and crocs are pretty slow, but wolves are very fast. If you're dealing with range issues, that 50 ft of movement and then attack can be very helpful.

 

[Pielorinho]

I actually think the summoning-unicorns trick is just about necessary for parties with no divine spellcasters other than a druid (e.g., our party). Without that trick, I'd need to devote most of my prepared spells to healing; at fifteenth level, it's not uncommon for us to have 4 characters each of whom need 70+ HP healing at the end of a fight. Summoning half a dozen unicorns really helps with this.

Daniel

 

[Moon-Lancer]

ay men. Plus summoning unicorns to heal has much more flavor then just blue sparkles, like the ff3 summons?

 

[Christian]

So let's see, a 4th level Druid spell, cast spontaneously, gives the Druid access to:

Cure Light Wounds *3 (1st level Druid spell) for 3d8+15 healing over the course of four rounds (one to Summon, three to Cast)
Cure Moderate Wounds (2nd level Druid spell) for 2d8+5 healing on the fifth round
Neutralize Poison (3rd level Druid spell).

Cure Moderate Wounds is a 3rd level Druid spell. 2nd level for Clerics, of course ... And don't forget the Magic Circle Against Evil effect, which Druid's don't have access to otherwise. My allies and I took way too much damage last adventure from Dominated party members for my taste. And we would have taken more if not for some lucky saves. (That +2 to Will saves from rage doesn't always just save the Barbarian's bacon.) Next time I catch even a hint of mind-control, those bad-Will-save folks get to fight side-by-side with Mr. Unicorn for a bit, methinks.

 

[Pielorinho]

Cure Moderate Wounds is a 3rd level Druid spell. 2nd level for Clerics, of course ... And don't forget the Magic Circle Against Evil effect, which Druid's don't have access to otherwise. My allies and I took way too much damage last adventure from Dominated party members for my taste. And we would have taken more if not for some lucky saves. (That +2 to Will saves from rage doesn't always just save the Barbarian's bacon.) Next time I catch even a hint of mind-control, those bad-Will-save folks get to fight side-by-side with Mr. Unicorn for a bit, methinks.

True, but it's a fourth-level spell for a 1 round/level magic circle, as opposed to a third-level spell for a 10 minute/level magic circle. The anti-domination effect suppresses the mind-control; it doesn't prevent it. Whereas MCaE can provide some reasonably long-term protection, the summoned unicorns just buy you a minute or so to get thigns under control.

Still very useful, but the time is a significant limitation.

Daniel

 

[geosapient]

Magic Circle

Do Druids even gain accass to Magic Circle otherwise?