Goblin Cavalry on Worgs

[Lord Ben]

Okay, lets say that the Broken Saddle Clan has a group of Goblin Raiders fiercely devoted to mounted combat on their highly trained Worgs. They equip themselves with light flails, light lances, and some shortbows, military saddles, etc. For my campaign they're going to be bbn/ftr's at even levels to avoid MC penalties.

Goblins get mounted combat and +6 ride when mounted on Worgs. If they're bbn1 can I use the one feat on ride by attack? I have mounted combat already as a prereq when on a Worg.

Scenario - I charge with the worg and goblin who's wielding his lance, I easily make my ride check since it's DC10 to attack with mount, and the worg attacks the PC. He hits and trips the PC who's now prone.

1: I get to attack the PC who's prone and I get my +4 to hit for prone, plus double damage for the lance and a charge.

2: I get the +4, but not double damage since he's already tripped and the charge is over.

3: I get double damage but he's not tripped yet.

4: Normal for both since charge is over and he's not tripped yet.

5: Just make them 3hp war1 goblins with MM stats and not waste my time adding levels and tactics...

 

[Greatwyrm]

I'd say you could buy Ride-by-Attack. Goblins essentially get Mounted Combat as a virtual feat. This means, however, they wouldn't be able to use Ride-by-Attack if they are mounted on anything but Worgs (like that's going to happen). This should work just like how Rangers can take stuff that requires Two-Weapon Fighting, but can't use those abilities if their in medium or heavy armor. Of course, if your Goblin Cavalry actually takes the feat Mounted Combat instead of relying on the virtual feat, this slight drawback won't apply.

As far as the trip/lance combo, my vote is for #2. However, if the attacker also has the Overrun/Trample Feat (can't remember the name) I might allow #1, substituting the trip for the trample damage.

 

[Wolf72]

it's more paperwork ... but you could make your Goblin-calvary all fighter1's ... 1st lvl feat= mounted combat, fighter bonus feat=ride by attack

 

[Lord Ben]

It's not much paperwork, levels are easy to tack on.

Well, at 2nd level they'll be bbn1/ftr1's and have spirited charge, at 3rd weapon focus lance, 4th is improved init. 6th is Iron Will, 8th is weapon spec lance, 9th is improved crit lance

I have them in stat-block format all the way to 6th so far. (I like designing random encounters so I can go with them on the fly in my different games I run). I don't know the rules too well, but they won't ride anything other then Worgs so I'm not taking mounted combat as an actual feat. I just need to know if it's worth it to use the worgs trip. Once I get spirited charge I might switch to the flail and beat the crap out of them as they're struggling underneath the worg.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I would resolve the lance attack normally (+2 for charging and double damage) and then the worg attack with the free trip, and then the continued move for ride-by attack. If the worg was successful, the target is now prone. This would simulate the simultaneity of the action.

 

[JESawyer]

I have nothing to contribute other than this .gif:

 

[Roland Delacroix]

You could make them Paladins so their worgs get bonus hit die and abilities. You could also advance the worgs, up to 6 HD before they become Large. If the goblins are elite their mounts should be too.

 

[Celebrim]

Call me crazy but I've assumed that Mounted Combat is not a virtual feat granted to goblins, but bonus feat gained by the warg riders because they are 1st level fighters, not 1st level warriors like regular goblins. (Wolf72 seems to have the same opinion).

(As an aside, I'd prefer to screw around quite abit with the goblin definition. For instance, giving them avg. 8 CON (-2) to make thier h.p. more in line with 1st edition norms (and giving them a +4 Fort bonus to resist poison and disease to maintain thier flavor). Also, Goblins should have +1 Stonecunning IMO.)

As far as the charge/trip combo goes, as I see it, there are three situations.

1) At your option, your lance goes first, you get double damage because you are still charging, but not +4 because he's not yet tripped. When the Wolf attacks, it ends its movement (and yours simultaneously) and you are thus no longer charging.

2) OR, at your option, the wolf goes first, you get +4 if the trip is successful but not double damage because movement ended when the wolves attack occured.

3) OR, at your option, the wolf can make an overrun attack. If successful, the opponent is prone, you do double damage, but the wolf may only make a trample attack, which if successful does subdual damage (based on an unarmed strike from a large creature) since the wolf has no hoofs. If you have Ride By Attack, you can continue movement after the charge. Note that under the standard rules, unless you have the Trample feat, the opponent can automatically avoid your overrun. Personally, I find that stupid and only allow overruns to be avoided with successful reflex saves vs. your ride check. I find it ridiculous to think that Granny Arthritis can automatically avoid being run down or tackled if she wants to.

 

[Artoomis]

First, I'd say the rider attacks before the mount, since the lance sticks out to reach the PC - so I'd not do a trip then lance, I'd do the lance, then trip.

Second, the way I read Ride-By attack is that only the rider may attack as you charge by the defender.

 

[Celebrim]

Artoomis:

First, only a heavy lance is a reach weapon. Light lances are not. Secondly, although it is not strictly speaking realistic, there is nothing in the rules that prevents you riding by the defender and executing the double damage lance attack when you have already gone by. (Such a rule would have to read something like, 'In order to recieve double damage, you must make the attack when the target first enters your threat range.') Also, I have no particular problem with envisioning in my head a situation in which the worg attacks, throws the target down, and then the goblin rises up in the saddle and thrusts down at his hapless foe.

Ride by attack provides two benefits. First, it lets you '...move and attack with a standard charge and then move again...' Secondly, it negates the AoO for passing through the target's threat zone. Since you can use an overrun as part of a standard charge action (during its movement phase thereby not ending the charge), I don't see anything that says Ride By Attack negates the use of an overrun.