Grade the Savage Worlds System

[Bacon Bits]

No, they were out of line by ignoring being informed what it meant in the context of genre entertainment, including RPGs, and telling everyone else they were wrong.

That would have to be based on the idea that genre in TTRPGs is somehow unrelated to and neither associated with nor descended from literary genres. Even if I admit that TTRPG genres have begun developing their own nuances within the genre terms within the space of the hobby, this is still not credible.

 

[Reynard]

That would have to be based on the idea that genre in TTRPGs is somehow unrelated to and neither associated with nor descended from literary genres. Even if I admit that TTRPG genres have begun developing their own nuances within the genre terms within the space of the hobby, this is still not credible.

I have a degree in English literature. RPGs do not figure into that field's critical paradigm at all. TTRPG genres haven't "begun" to develop their own nuances, they did that within months of D&D's appearance and have spawned at least one medium's worth of nuances and massively impacted another's. The academic critical view of "pulp" could not be less relevant to a discussion about what Savage Worlds is good for.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I have a degree in English literature. RPGs do not figure into that field's critical paradigm at all.

Both of those strike me as not relevant.

Appeal to authority by itself is not a convincing counterargument, and nobody is saying that TTRPG genres and literary genres are tightly interacting elements of culture.

That doesn't mean Call of Cthulhu saying it's cosmic horror has nothing to do with the cosmic horror literary genre. Or Sword & Sorcery and Conan. Or heroic fantasy and AD&D. Or high fantasy and D&D. That's ridiculous on it's face. You'd have to argue a lot harder than that to change my mind. I wouldn't expect an English professor to go looking at their FLGS for innovations in literary genre expressions. But art doesn't exist only when an academic is looking at it.

It certainly doesn't mean that the way hobbyists and laymen use terms is somehow subservient to how an academic uses terms. That's not how language works.

 

[MGibster]

It's alright, I guess. My only major complaint with the current edition (SWADE) is the same complaint I've had with all editions to date - the powers system is painfully generic (i.e. all powers are really just the same mechanically with a different coat of paint for a given setting/genre).

You're supposed to add trappings to the powers that help make them less generic. If your character purchases the Bolt power, what trappings does it have? Is it a bolt of fire? Acid? Ice? These things could modify the damage or have other effects. But some people might find it too generic even then.

 

[MGibster]

I have a degree in English literature. RPGs do not figure into that field's critical paradigm at all. TTRPG genres haven't "begun" to develop their own nuances, they did that within months of D&D's appearance and have spawned at least one medium's worth of nuances and massively impacted another's. The academic critical view of "pulp" could not be less relevant to a discussion about what Savage Worlds is good for.

It certainly doesn't mean that the way hobbyists and laymen use terms is somehow subservient to how an academic uses terms. That's not how language works.

I might be missing something here, but Reynard isn't arguing that the way hobbyist and layment used pulp is subservient to how academics use it. He seems to be arguing the opposite. The academic meaning, insofar as gamers are concerned, amounts to a hill of beans. i.e. It's not at all relevant.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I might be missing something here, but Reynard isn't arguing that the way hobbyist and layment used pulp is subservient to how academics use it. He seems to be arguing the opposite. The academic meaning, insofar as gamers are concerned, amounts to a hill of beans. i.e. It's not at all relevant.

Yes, but when we as hobbyists say, "Call of Cthulhu is cosmic horror" we as hobbyists are deliberately evoking the cosmic horror literary genre. There are elements of the cosmic horror literary genre that the cosmic horror TTRPGs are specifically trying to recreate and include.

When we as hobbyists say, "D&D is high fantasy" we as hobbyists are deliberately evoking the high fantasy literary genre. There are elements of the high fantasy literary genre that the high fantasy TTRPGs are specifically trying to recreate and include.

Therefore, it's entirely reasonable, as a hobbyist, to think that when we say, "Savage Worlds is pulp," that we as hobbyists are deliberately evoking the pulp literary genre. There are elements of pulp magazines that the pulp TTRPGs are specifically trying to recreate and include.

But knowing that "pulp fiction" was largely used in a derogatory way for a significant portion of it's history... you can see why it might be confusing.

So saying, "But that's not what English academics mean," just doesn't matter. Nobody is doing a 1-to-1 match of every nuanced element.

 

[Reynard]

Appeal to authority

That isn't appeal to authority. I was establishing the source for the argument that followed, which you ignored in favor of something nonsensical.

 

[Retreater]

Good Lord, this argument is beating me to a pulp.

 

[jdrakeh]

You're supposed to add trappings to the powers that help make them less generic. If your character purchases the Bolt power, what trappings does it have? Is it a bolt of fire? Acid? Ice? These things could modify the damage or have other effects. But some people might find it too generic even then.

The trappings are the coat of paint I referred to.

 

[Reef]

The trappings are the coat of paint I referred to.

It’s not the trappings so much, but the modifiers. As @thullgrim mentioned, there’s even a document that shows how to recreate most of the common spells using this modifiers.

Using those modifiers (which are available to all casters), you can recreate the vast majority of D&D spells with a hand full of powers. Got Bolt and Blast? Well, you’ve pretty much got all the direct damage spells, at the cost of two powers.

Yeah, it’s boring if the player constantly spams “Bolt”. But the game encourages them to individualize each spell. In fact, I’d probably encourage players to ‘pre-build’ some common options for themselves, but there’s nothing stopping them from doing it on the fly as they cast.