Grapple/Swallow Whole - guidance needed

[Dimwhit]

So I almost killed my group last night, and I'm still not sure I played this correctly. They fought a Tendriculous, which swallowed and killed 3 party members. The main question involves when you're swallowed. The grapple rules say you need to make a grapple check to attack with a light weapon. The swallowed rules say you can cut yourself out. Does the grapple requirement of making the grapple check apply when you've been swallowed (the swallowed rules do say you're treated as being grappled)? Or can they just cut themselves out without having to make the grapple check? How about drinking a potion? The grapple rules say you can activate a magic item without needing to make a grapple check, but that's usually a command-word activation thing. Nothing about drinking a potion (which was already in hand before being swallowed).

Trying to figure out if I need to reset this battle or not. That CR 6 Tendriculous seemed pretty tough to be able to take out 3 out of 6 party members, plus an animal companion.

 

[Grogg of the North]

I've always just run it as you can attack the stomach/whatever to get out. I never even considered the grapple rules for that scenario. Just running it as a straight attack is faster and more favorable for the swallowed PC (If you were swallowed I doubt you're going to be making grapple checks for damage anyway). Because of muscular contraction silliness I usually say that the damage dealt to escape doesn't hurt the "main monster".

The few times anyone has been swallowed and wanted to cast a spell I've usually asked for concentration checks.

I've let PCs drink potions; even fish them out of bags too. If you need a potion while in a monsters stomach you have bigger, more pressing issues.

On a side note, the last time I ran a tendriculous it ended with the monk running away, the cleric on the ground and the rogue as plant food. That was one of the big lessons that taught me CR is just a guideline.

 

[Greenfield]

If You’re Grappling
When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.
Activate a Magic Item: You can activate a magic item, as long as the item doesn’t require a spell completion trigger. You
don’t need to make a grapple check to activate the item.
Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks.
You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.

Cast a Spell: You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have in hand any material components or focuses you might need. Any spell that requires precise and careful action is impossible to cast while grappling or being pinned. If the spell is one that you can cast while grappling, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) or lose the spell.
You don’t have to make a successful grapple check to cast the spell.
Damage Your Opponent: While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a –4 penalty on your grapple check.
Exception: Monks deal more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, and the damage is lethal. However, they can choose to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grappling without taking the usual –4 penalty for changing lethal damage to nonlethal damage.
Draw a Light Weapon: You can draw a light weapon as a move action with a successful grapple check.

The problem isn't in attacking, it's in drawing the light weapon to attack with.

If the weapon is already ready for use, go for it. You're good to go. (This is one reason you always take things like Spiked Gauntlet and/or Armor Spikes. Light weapons, always readied.)

 

[Dimwhit]

Interesting. I was thinking that if you had a light weapon drawn, you still had to make a successful grapple check to attack with it.

So what do you think about the potion? Grogg thinks drinking it is fine. I'm not so sure. I guess if it's in hand, it's probably fine. Hard to say, though.

 

[Greenfield]

I have no idea how to give someone a -4 at drinking a potion.

Yeah, if they have it in hand, just let them drink it. If they have to dig it out of a pouch or pack, treat it like drawing a weapon.

 

[Empirate]

First of all, the Tendriculous is among the more ridiculous examples of CR =! actual challenge posed. Regeneration and an (at the level) nigh unbeatable grapple check mean that the damn thing WILL be able to do their thing and swallow people if you let them get close. It's really a case where the players benefit massively from a heads-up prior to encountering the monster. In an ambush scenario (i.e., the PCs are ambushed), the Tendriculous is just plain deadly.

That said, here's how Swallow Whole works:

[h=3]Swallow Whole[/h] If a creature with this special attack begins its turn with an opponent held in its mouth (see Improved Grab), it can attempt a new grapple check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey, and the opponent takes bite damage. Unless otherwise noted, the opponent can be up to one size category smaller than the swallowing creature. Being swallowed has various consequences, depending on the creature doing the swallowing. A swallowed creature is considered to be grappled, while the creature that did the swallowing is not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is noted in the creature description), or it can just try to escape the grapple. The Armor Class of the interior of a creature that swallows whole is normally 10 + ½ its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, success puts it back in the attacker’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.

Important part bolded. So yes, in order to draw your light slashing weapon, you actually have to make a grapple check. If you attack with it, you take a -4 penalty to the attack roll. If you want to drink a potion that's already in hand, you can do so without problems. If the potion was not in hand to begin with, you have to make a grapple check to take it out of your pocket/bandoleer/etc.

 

[Dimwhit]

Thanks all for this. It sounds like I did screw up a bit.

I have another question. When the Tendriculous swallows, a character has to make the fortitude save to avoid paralysis. If successful, he has to make it each round. Do you make it on the creature's turn, or the character's? If you make the save when swallowed (still the creature's turn), do you have to make it again on your turn (effectively requiring two saves before you can act), then each round after on your turn? Or is it just every round on the creature's turn?

 

[N'raac]

I'd say you save on its turn. First, it's the Tendridiculous's ability, and second I agree two saves before acting seems wrong.

 

[MortalPlague]

I never realized creatures were still considered grappled after they'd been swallowed. Brutal! Can't say it's come up that much in my 3rd edition games, though.

 

[roundviper]

I know we have always gone with you take acid damage once inside the stomach of the creature. You can then cut yourself out with a light weapon. Some creatures do have a grapple inside the stomach. It depends on how difficult you want to make it to get out.