D&D (2024) Graze on a miss questions

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

How about more John Wick?

He takes a ton of meat damage, but he never grew bigger or more dense.

(I say this as someone who sees hit points as a hybrid of body + mind + genre conceits -- the latter which I have a love-and-hate relationship with)

I like the JW movies, but actually feel it breaks the immersion of the film with how much damage he takes and keeps going. I don’t want that in my D&D (immersion breaking)

 

[Azzy]

Well, because 4e didn’t have different damage types on weapons, and its detractors didn’t like that.

Of note, BECMI (and earlier) and 1e didn’t have different damage types on weapons either. This was a 2e thing that was carried forward to 3e. I wish weapon damage types would go away as they really don't add much.

 

[CleverNickName]

I'll say this every time someone starts a "damage on a miss" thread: if a character is going to automatically inflict damage (or harm, or trauma, or exhaustion, or undue stress, however you define 'damage') to their target, we should just let the player roll that damage every round and skip the attack roll.

If they roll minimum damage, we can call that a "graze" or whatever. If they roll maximum damage, we can call that a "crit" and let them roll extra dice or something. For everything in between, we can just keep calling "a hit." Attacking is a foregone conclusion, we only need to assess the damage. So just roll for that damage and move on.

 

[Reef]

I'll say this every time someone starts a "damage on a miss" thread: if a character is going to automatically inflict damage (or harm, or trauma, or exhaustion, or undue stress, however you define 'damage') to their target, we should just let the player roll that damage every round and skip the attack roll.

If they roll minimum damage, we can call that a "graze" or whatever. If they roll maximum damage, we can call that a "crit" and let them roll extra dice or something. For everything in between, we can just keep calling "a hit." Attacking is a foregone conclusion, we only need to assess the damage. So just roll for that damage and move on.

And if they were adding DoaM across the board, you would be right. But we’re talking a rider on a small number of cases. It’s not replacing the attack/damage paradigm, it’s adding to it.

 

[Charlaquin]

I'll say this every time someone starts a "damage on a miss" thread: if a character is going to automatically inflict damage (or harm, or trauma, or exhaustion, or undue stress, however you define 'damage') to their target, we should just let the player roll that damage every round and skip the attack roll.

If they roll minimum damage, we can call that a "graze" or whatever. If they roll maximum damage, we can call that a "crit" and let them roll extra dice or something. For everything in between, we can just keep calling "a hit." Attacking is a foregone conclusion, we only need to assess the damage. So just roll for that damage and move on.

But that would have completely different odds.

 

[CleverNickName]

And if they were adding DoaM across the board, you would be right. But we’re talking a rider on a small number of cases. It’s not replacing the attack/damage paradigm, it’s adding to it.

Yeah, I know. And I agree--having it as a rider on a small number of cases is a good way to introduce it and let people test it out. (It also makes it easy to remove, for folks who don't want it. If pressed, I'd just swap it out with a different weapon property and move on.)

I'm curious what problem the devs are trying to solve, though. If a dev is reading this: what is Graze adding that was missing?

 

[Reef]

Yeah, I know. And I agree--having it as a rider on a small number of cases is a good way to introduce it and let people test it out. (It also makes it easy to remove, for folks who don't want it. If pressed, I'd just swap it out with a different weapon property and move on.)

I'm curious what problem the devs are trying to solve, though. What is it adding?

I’d say it was adding what every other mastery ability was adding: an interesting mechanical differentiation between weapon types that the specialists can use to get some minor spotlight time. I don’t think there’s any deeper ulterior motive with DoaM than there is with Vex, Cleave, or Nick.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

"The difference between the almost right word and the right word is like the difference between a lightning bug and the lightning"

It sounds as if this rule exposes cracks in the system. "Hit", "miss", "damage", "slashing", "graze"... it sounds like these words are bugs.

Nah. They're not bugs. They're just a guideline to point people to ONE WAY you can imagine your fiction, in case you need the help. But you are encouraged by the game to make up whatever you want at any given time, including throwing the word out and using a different one whenever it suits uou to do so.

Just tell the story you want to tell and let the mechanics guide you only so far as they allow. Don't get hung up on words being 100% exact all the time (they are only meant to fit "much" of the time, not ALL of the time).

You wind up with a lot less problems that way, IMO. It's very freeing.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, I know. And I agree--having it as a rider on a small number of cases is a good way to introduce it and let people test it out. (It also makes it easy to remove, for folks who don't want it. If pressed, I'd just swap it out with a different weapon property and move on.)

I'm curious what problem the devs are trying to solve, though. If a dev is reading this: what is Graze adding that was missing?

Making a greatsword different than a greataxe.

 

[Gorck]

I'll say this every time someone starts a "damage on a miss" thread: if a character is going to automatically inflict damage (or harm, or trauma, or exhaustion, or undue stress, however you define 'damage') to their target, we should just let the player roll that damage every round and skip the attack roll.

If they roll minimum damage, we can call that a "graze" or whatever. If they roll maximum damage, we can call that a "crit" and let them roll extra dice or something. For everything in between, we can just keep calling "a hit." Attacking is a foregone conclusion, we only need to assess the damage. So just roll for that damage and move on.

I could understand this sentiment if the player had to roll for the Graze damage. But it’s just the player’s STR or DEX, so it’s not like Graze adds any additional time to the player’s turn.