D&D 5E [GUIDE] Inquisitor Lim's Bladesinger and Wizard Guide: Xanathar's Edition

[Rofel Wodring]

If you're playing a high elf and don't plan to Reincarnate, you'd probably be starting with one of:

• 17 16 15 8 8 8
• 16 16 15 10 8 8
• 16 16 14 10 10 8
• 16 16 14 12 8 8.

First array: I'd go with a +1 to DEX and CON at level 4, Warcaster at level 8, max out INT, then the rest to flavor.
Second array: I'd go with Resilient: CON, max out INT, then the rest to flavor.
Third and Fourth Array: I'd start with Warcaster. Max out INT, then the rest to flavor.

 

[Zene]

I thought it might be interesting to simulate Warcaster's impact on maintaining Concentration. The two characters have Constitution 14 and Intelligence 16 to start with. The left takes the ASI and the right takes the feat. The DC is assumed to be 10.

View attachment 90684

Reciprocal shows the naive expectation for number of hits until a Concentration failure. We expect to lose Concentration somewhere among 7 hits for the ASI versus about 25 for the feat.
The red and green coloured block is the interesting part. With an assumption of taking 5 hits, how many occurrences of fails should be expected? Failing 0 times or more is 100%. Failing 1 time or more is 56% for the ASI and 18% for the feat.

One confound is that the character taking the ASI gets hit slightly less often due to Intelligence improving AC: let's say that was a whole hit less.

View attachment 90685

The character taking the ASI is still close to 50/50 on losing Concentration. (The character would need to take at least 3 fewer hits to keep Concentration as successfully as the Warcaster.) As these values evolve, the gap stays about the same. For example, with both characters starting at Constitution 16 and Intelligence 18 (say at higher level), the Warcaster has only a 5% chance of losing Concentration once or more over five hits, against 20%-ish with the ASI.

Great analysis! Would it be easy to model how Res (Con) compares? It should be about the same as Warcaster, right? Slightly worse than Warcaster at low to mid levels, slightly better at higher levels...

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

If you're playing a high elf and don't plan to Reincarnate, you'd probably be starting with one of:

• 17 16 15 8 8 8
• 16 16 15 10 8 8
• 16 16 14 10 10 8
• 16 16 14 12 8 8.

First array: I'd go with a +1 to DEX and CON at level 4, Warcaster at level 8, max out INT, then the rest to flavor.
Second array: I'd go with Resilient: CON, max out INT, then the rest to flavor.
Third and Fourth Array: I'd start with Warcaster. Max out INT, then the rest to flavor.

Got it. Thanks!

 

[clearstream]

Great analysis! Would it be easy to model how Res (Con) compares? It should be about the same as Warcaster, right? Slightly worse than Warcaster at low to mid levels, slightly better at higher levels...

Using @Rofel Wodring's arrays and choices. (R is Resilience, A is ASI-first, W is Warcaster-first.)

At level 4 we have

• R = 8, 16, 16, 16, 10, 8
• A = 8, 16, 16, 18, 8, 8
• W= 8, 16, 14, 16, 12, 8

I added defenses and damage because that indicates attacks required in order to need to make saves the chosen number of times. As a result, I reduced the chosen number of saves for plausibility over an average encounter. Those assumptions are easy to change: do they look okay to you?

At level 4, Resilience close to matches Warcaster-first for keeping Concentration. ASI-first is about 19% likely to lose Concentration one time or more... a little less seeing as foe must swing at them more often to yield the same number of hits.

At level 8 we have

• R = 8, 16, 16, 18, 10, 8
• A = 8, 16, 16, 18, 8, 8
• W= 8, 16, 14, 18, 12, 8

By level 8 the character with Resilience can't fail their DC 10 saving throw against a normal hit. That is better than any other option for this purpose. Both the others now have Warcaster, but ASI-first made choices that pay off by better at this level.

Looking at a one-off critical hit. ASI-first is best off at 17% of losing Concentration one time or more. Warcaster-first is at 22% for that, and Resilience is 28%.

 

[NADRIGOL]

Hey! Great guide! Haven't had time to give it a thorough read, but the amount of work you've put into it is very impressive. I'm editing my own guide's opening post to reference your work here.

Just wanted to point out that it looks like the public editable copy you've posted has been moved to your trash bin. I get a warning when I open it to make my own copy.

Cheers!

 

[Rofel Wodring]

Links updated.

 

[clearstream]

If you're playing a high elf and don't plan to Reincarnate, you'd probably be starting with one of:

• 17 16 15 8 8 8
• 16 16 15 10 8 8
• 16 16 14 10 10 8
• 16 16 14 12 8 8.

First array: I'd go with a +1 to DEX and CON at level 4, Warcaster at level 8, max out INT, then the rest to flavor.
Second array: I'd go with Resilient: CON, max out INT, then the rest to flavor.
Third and Fourth Array: I'd start with Warcaster. Max out INT, then the rest to flavor.

Regarding the charts I posted above, I'll quickly run through why I believe Warcaster can be more optimally taken later than earlier.

• At lower levels, foes have fewer attacks and do less damage. That results in fewer saves, with DCs fixed at 10. As the chart shows, the probability of losing Concentration is low even without the feat. The chart suggests that a character is likely to die before it would lose Concentration. Therefore the bigger risk is dying from too few HP. That favours an early ASI.
• At higher levels, foes have more attacks (e.g. Multiattack for three attacks) and do more damage. Resulting in more saves, with DCs that can go above 10. That increases the relative value of Warcaster or Resilience. The advantage of Resilience is more HP and frequently, Concentration saves that cannot be failed. The advantage of Warcaster is that it is better against critical hits (or any hits that do massive damage) and offers other benefits.

One of those benefits that there has been discussion around is using the SCAG cantrips with Warcaster. The value of that depends on the frequency of AoOs, which in turn depends on how a group plays. For some groups it will have high value, for other groups potentially no value. Aside from those cantrips, spells like Blindness/Deafness or Blight could well be better casts. Leading me to believe that the Warcaster AoO trigger improves with spell slot level and quantity. Warcaster also makes it easier to use Somatic components. Bladesinger's don't use Shields, but can benefit from a second weapon. This benefit is minor but can be helpful, especially for groups that track if a weapon is stowed or in hand in foes' turns.

Finally, it can be the case (as the chart indicates) that a character planned for an early ASI evolves more robustly than one planned for an early feat. As wizards often prioritise Intelligence in character generation, that early ASI is likely shoring up Dexterity and/or Constitution. Investing an ASI in those abilities improves the chance of not dying through running out of HP, including via more subtle benefits such as acting earlier in the Initiative order.

In conclusion, there are reasons to believe the value of Warcaster scales with level, especially relative to an early ASI. Many factors can change that: how a group plays, how a player shapes and plays their character, what they roll if they are using the standard generation method.

 

[Felipe Marques]

Hey, awesome guide! I agree more with it than the Nadrigols.
But one thing was not clear for me.
What’s your optimum dpr “rotation”? Specially at mid lvls like 8 - 12.
You said not to use haste. What you use then? What should you be concentrating on?
Also, I’m a very old school, so for me Bladesingers need to be 1h weps. No dual wield.
Thx!

 

[Rofel Wodring]

You said not to use haste. What you use then? What should you be concentrating on?

1 - Protection from Good and Evil (this should probably be on a party member) to save spell slots. Silent Image, Fog Cloud.
2 - Ray of Enfeeblement, Phantasmal Force, Levitate, Web, Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, Dragon's Breath
3 - Fly, Sleet Storm, Enemies Abound, Haste (on Sharpshooter/GWM/smite-abusing martials, not yourself), Hypnotic Pattern (not a fan of it myself, but others are), Fear. Some people have luck with Major Image, but I haven't had any luck with Major Image I haven't already had with Silent Image.
4 - Greater Invisibility (on Sharpshooter/GWM/smite-abusing martials, not yourself), Evard's Black Tentacles, Watery Sphere, Wall of Fire, Polymorph, Banishment
5 - Animate Objects, Bigby's Hand, Conjure Elemental, Infernal Calling, Telekinesis, Wall of Force, Wall of Stone

Your martial talents are a backup used to conserve spell slots and make it more difficult for enemies to escape your zones. And your high AC and concentration is a backup to that. I don't think a lot of wizard guides emphasize enough how if your opposition is reasonably intelligent, you should expect for spells like Wall of Force to have everyone gunning for you. I have spend my actions in combat hiding and/or dodging after dropping a concentration spell I REALLY want to stay up, like Banishment and Conjure Elemental.

 

[Felipe Marques]

Roel, thank you for answering.
What is still not clear to me, is that you don't have that many spells per day in order to use all that in every encounter.
What would you be using after you gained advantaged in the battlefield with some spells? Just regular BB and GB? What would your melee dps full rnd attack be?
Also, what concentration would you rather keep on your self rather than Haste? Blink?

Guess I would like to know your dpr “rotation”.
also, do you play most 1h or dw?