HA! to all of you!

[Dm_from_Brazil]

From: "Top 5 Roleplaying Games Q4 2010": http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpg-industry-forum/303589-icv2-top-5-roleplaying-games-q4-2010-a.html

...Ok, so maybe it´s "HA!" to all who was expecting Paizo to had (already) passed WotC in sales, after Q3, when they tied for First Place.

From this point on, MANY, MANY threads (and people) here at EnWorld was in the lines of "the king is dead, long live the king" - that D&D was over, and that Pathfinder had taken over.

And I am sure that many were expecting the ICV2 Q4 market research to point Pathfinder as the number one, using for example, the Amazon Bestsellers list as a possible proof.

SO, WHAT IT ALL MEANS? Means that the Red Box and Essentials sold (far) better than the reviews here would make one expect... So, HA! again.

It means that people are NOT giving up D&D/WotC - much the opposite, if WotC untied sales with Paizo. And here goes the last HA!

NOTE: OK, so ICV2 is not a perfect source of data (and Amazon, even less so) - but it is the (main) one we have available, to measure hobby markets.
The other option is anecdotal information, wich is EVEN LESS reliable (and I don´t saw many people questioning ICV2 when they tied WotC and Paizo sales...)

And this thread means I think WotC products (and services) are exemplar and perfect? Far from that! But what I see here in EnWorld are entire threads guided by irrational hatred and despise for WotC, something I think they don´t deserve, albeit all its shortcomings.

MAKE GAME, NOT (EDITION) WAR.

 

[jaerdaph]

 

[JoeGKushner]

I hope it means that the Red Box kicked all sorts of ass.

I wonder what your post will be for '11 first quarter though...

 

[BryonD]

Its great that you are happy. Congrats.


Oh, by the way, the market is still split.

 

[Relique du Madde]

I think the bigger story is that DragonAge is number 4 and M&M is number 5. Seriously! Who would have thought that DragonAge would do so well?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

From: "Top 5 Roleplaying Games Q4 2010": http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpg-industry-forum/303589-icv2-top-5-roleplaying-games-q4-2010-a.html

...Ok, so maybe it´s "HA!" to all who was expecting Paizo to had (already) passed WotC in sales, after Q3, when they tied for First Place.

From this point on, MANY, MANY threads (and people) here at EnWorld was in the lines of "the king is dead, long live the king" - that D&D was over, and that Pathfinder had taken over.

And I am sure that many were expecting the ICV2 Q4 market research to point Pathfinder as the number one, using for example, the Amazon Bestsellers list as a possible proof.

SO, WHAT IT ALL MEANS? Means that the Red Box and Essentials sold (far) better than the reviews here would make one expect... So, HA! again.

It means that people are NOT giving up D&D/WotC - much the opposite, if WotC untied sales with Paizo. And here goes the last HA!

NOTE: OK, so ICV2 is not a perfect source of data (and Amazon, even less so) - but it is the (main) one we have available, to measure hobby markets.
The other option is anecdotal information, wich is EVEN LESS reliable (and I don´t saw many people questioning ICV2 when they tied WotC and Paizo sales...)

And this thread means I think WotC products (and services) are exemplar and perfect? Far from that! But what I see here in EnWorld are entire threads guided by irrational hatred and despise for WotC, something I think they don´t deserve, albeit all its shortcomings.

MAKE GAME, NOT (EDITION) WAR.

I think your memory is pretty selective. PLENTY of people here at ENworld challenged ICV2's numbers when Pathfinder tied D&D.

Also? You gloating in this manner really helps make your last point doesnt it?

 

[SteveC]

So reports of WotC death still premature, eh?

The good news is really that sales are up. That's something we can all agree is a good thing.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Actual sales, or sales before returns are calculated? Locally, there were lots of returns, especially of the Red Box. (The local stores were not at all happy with the sales of the Red Box, Borders has returned them, the not so local friendly game store is holding on, guessing that they will sell eventually. It may take a while, but they do expect them to sell. Too bad the store is in Gardner, I would like a more local dedicated game store.)

My suspicion is that returns were high, but not enough to tilt things. That Essentials did its job in the holiday season, both from gifting and from gift certificates. If Essentials is turning things around, then good on WotC. (It will also mean that I was right when I thought that Essentials would do well, I had been wondering where my expectations went wrong.)

Locally Pathfinder has not had any returns at all, yet. (I am waiting to see how UM is going to do - it is the Pathfinder release where returns may begin, a narrower focus than APG.) Mind you, the local Borders does not carry the Adventure Paths - which might mean more sales, but would almost certainly generate returns as well. (Returns make me nervous - a certain level is healthy, but too many makes a shop less likely to keep a game in stock.) It also has a whole lot less baggage, 4e is, perhaps, overly supported by supplementary material.

But the important part is not who did better - it is the fact that Hobby Games, including RPG sales, are up by 10%! I have been thinking that sales were continuing a downward trend, if returns were at a similar level to last year then things are looking much better for RPGs than I expected.

Hopefully it means that Essentials is doing its job - I would much rather gripe about WotC doing well than worrying that the RPG hobby is suffering. One gives me something to complain about, the other upsets my digestion.

The Auld Grump

 

[pawsplay]

From: "Top 5 Roleplaying Games Q4 2010": http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpg-industry-forum/303589-icv2-top-5-roleplaying-games-q4-2010-a.html

...Ok, so maybe it´s "HA!" to all who was expecting Paizo to had (already) passed WotC in sales, after Q3, when they tied for First Place.

From this point on, MANY, MANY threads (and people) here at EnWorld was in the lines of "the king is dead, long live the king" - that D&D was over, and that Pathfinder had taken over.

I'm not aware of any such threads. Perhaps some overexcited poster might have said such a thing. Maybe you can post an example?

There has been a lot of discussion of how D&D has almost certainly underperformed and Pathfinder has done shockingly well. That doesn't mean Pathfinder is D&D; most people have not even heard of Pathfinder, everyone has heard of D&D.

 

[Dannager]

While I can certainly appreciate the OP's sentiment in taking the doomsayers to task (they get away with far too much), I'm not sure the gloating attitude is really necessary. Also, I'm not sure this needs to have its own thread.