Half-Fiend Character Creation Questions

[DarkDisciple27]

So I am making a half-fiend warlock/cleric - eldrich disciple. I have never made a character using a template before, so I have some questions.

For reference http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/monsters/HALF-FIEND.html

Do I skills for the 4 lvls of adjustment the class takes? Or is that only if I take levels in half-fiend specifically before I take class levels.

If I do gain skills points from the class, they would all count as cross-class right, since there are no human racial skills, or are there? (The non fiend half is human.)

It says do not recalculate hit dice, BAB, saves, etc. Are there some base human values I use for those levels, or do they just stay at 0 till I take class levels?

Do I still get my con bonus for those levels even if I don't roll anything for them?

Lastly, If I have 15 class levels (ECL 19 with the half-fiend race), is my maximum cohort level 13, or 17?

-Thanks!

 

[frankthedm]

...they just stay at 0 till I take class levels?

Pretty much.

Do I still get my con bonus for those levels even if I don't roll anything for them?

No.

 

[Aus_Snow]

If you're just using the template, then those four 'points' of LA *don't* count as levels for any purpose other than starting wealth and experience point totals. Basically, they're not levels at all; they're not Hit Dice, in other words. You don't get skill points, feats, hit points, or any of that other stuff you'd normally get from actually gaining levels.

But the character in question here will most likely (depending on the DM's methods, mind you) begin play with gear of value equal to what a 19th level character should have. And this character would also need to get to 190000 XP (from memory) in order to level up (to 16th level / ECL 20).

Maximum cohort level is determined by your character level (*not* ECL) plus your Charisma modifier, so I'm not quite sure where you're getting those numbers from. Without magic items and/or feats or other abilities that might be out there that boost the PC's Leadership score, I can see them getting a 15th level cohort, tops. That's with maxing out Charisma - starting with an 18, and adding 3 to it with increases by level. Oh, and +4 from the template, of course.*

Hope that helps a bit. If you have any more questions, just ask, and I or someone else will be sure to try and assist.

* Gah, just looked up that template again (it's been a while) - and they have +2 Cha, not +4. My bad.

 

[DarkDisciple27]

Maximum cohort level is determined by your character level (*not* ECL) plus your Charisma modifier, so I'm not quite sure where you're getting those numbers from. Without magic items and/or feats or other abilities that might be out there that boost the PC's Leadership score, I can see them getting a 15th level cohort, tops. That's with maxing out Charisma - starting with an 18, and adding 3 to it with increases by level. Oh, and +4 from the template, of course.*

Max cohort level is also capped by level minus two. So a lvl 20 fighter, with 50 charisma, could only have a lvl 18 cohort. I gather from what you say here that Ill only be able to have a lvl 13 cohort because of my class lvl, despite my 30 chr with items.

 

[frankthedm]

Maximum cohort level is determined by your character level (*not* ECL) plus your Charisma modifier, so I'm not quite sure where you're getting those numbers from.

That subject came up here. http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/223380-ecl-character-level.html

Having mulled that thread over, i now feel it is reasonable to allow a PC to use their total ECL to determine what level their max cohort level is. Both from a perspective of fairness and from a rules text perspective.

"The effective character level (ECL) of a creature determines how powerful it is as a character or cohort."

Thus a ECL 10 would have an absolute max ECL 8 Cohort. If a DM want to use the Player's ECL crippled Hitdice to shrink the cohort further, IMHO it would be fairer and more honest to just say "No Leadership." which is an option built into Leadership itself.

 

[DarkDisciple27]

Alright cool. Now what about the skill points? Do I get those for the half-fiend levels?

 

[frankthedm]

Alright cool. Now what about the skill points? Do I get those for the half-fiend levels?

No skill points are gained if your base race is human.

Now for an example where the half fiend's skill adjustment matters, a Half Fiend Minotaur, has 6 racial HD that are effected by the half fiend skill adjustment. Too bad as a player character it also has a +5 LA!

Don't get hung up on the word "Effective" in Effective Character Level. Level adjustment levels are "Dead levels" that do virtually nothing to help the character. edit Hmm... "^Ineffective Character Level"

At first glance ECL seems to just be there to make sure the Fellowship of the Ring races are not outshined by the oddball races.

The big thing with ECL is when Level adjustment is set based on a creature already written out as a monster, NOTHING gets taken off ro reduce the ECL, it seemed wotc designers did not have that option, they had to work with what was in the MM. Thus a Hobgoblin gets a +1 LA solely because he has two ability score bumps, but no ability score penalties. BUT if writing a new race to have an ECL, they get to add just enough stuff to make the ECL worthwhile, without adding that "certain element" which would mandate another point of crippling level adjustment.

It is kinda like LA's are round holes, but MM monster stats are mostly square pegs. if Monster manual Monster A has a special abilty that makes it not fit the round hole of LA+2. it automaticly got bumped up to LA+3.

 

[irdeggman]

Do I still get my con bonus for those levels even if I don't roll anything for them?

Con bonus always works as written in the SRD (or PHB)

CONSTITUTION (CON)
Constitution represents your character’s health and stamina. A Constitution bonus increases a character’s hit points, so the ability is important for all classes.
You apply your character’s Constitution modifier to:
• Each roll of a Hit Die (though a penalty can never drop a result below 1—that is, a character always gains at least 1 hit point each time he or she advances in level).
• Fortitude saving throws, for resisting poison and similar threats.
• Concentration checks. Concentration is a skill, important to spellcasters, that has Constitution as its key ability.
If a character’s Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character’s hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.