Halflings?

[Ulthwithian]

Well, ki11er, I think empirical evidence so far shows that halflings are excellent Strikers and Defenders. I would think that you have the onus of proving that they don't.

As for other races with 'negatives without attending positives'....?

Humans: Only get one bonus stat. Sure, you can have it anywhere you want, but since all attributes are covered by PHB races, you can always choose another race to get the stat boost in a stat of your choice, and then get another one.

Example: You want +2 to Strength. Your options are either Human or Dragonborn. If you choose Dragonborn, you get another +2 stat bonus gratis.

Also, if you want a discussion, I'd suggest not stating that others are wrong for valuing something over another. It is not conducive to having one.

 

[Nail]

There you go.

...now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout.

Thanks!

 

[Spatula]

I just want you to show me were any other race has a penalty applied to it that is not directly countered by another ability. As I say earlier the only other race with any negative at all is the dwarf and they have a specific benefited that off sets it.

Some of the other races don’t look that great, like I see halfelf mentioned over and over. And you can debate the usefulness of getting access to another classes abilities (I think it is a good ability) but it is not a penalty. I just don’t see how if you compare a halfling line by line to the other races (except maybe the halfelf) that you can say they don’t come out on the raw end. Unless you really think second chance is just that much better than healing yourself as a minor action or 25’ teleport. And if you do, your wrong. Not that I am saying it sucks… it is just not any better than those abilities.

So basically you just want halflings to have a lot of abilities, even if those abilities don't do much. Since you're complaining about line-by-line comparisons. Every race but elf & eladrin has some downside compared to others (humans: no encounter power, only one stat boost, normal vision). What matters in the end is the total package. The hafling gets two solid abilities and a conditional save bonus. There's nothing wrong with them on paper.

As for dwarves, they are slower than normal, period. They have an ability where they're not slowed further by heavy armor, but that only applies if you're going to wear heavy armor in the first place. And that armor speed penalty can be negated by other races anyway through feats or items. The dwarf will always be stuck at speed 5.

In the same way that a dwarf's slow speed is somewhat off-set for some classes, the halfling's small size is only a penalty if you're trying to use 2H weapons. If you're a spellcaster, you don't care that you're small. If you're a rogue, you don't care. If you're a TWF ranger, you don't care. If you're a sword & board type, you don't care.

Sure, you probably won't make a 2H fighter with a halfling... well you could, actually, with the cost of a feat to learn to use bastard swords, which are just as good for a halfling as greatswords are for medium-size creatures. So scratch that. Halflings can do anything.

 

[cdrcjsn]

In 3e, any race that had a free reroll for any saving throw once per encounter would be deemed uber powerful.

4e halflings get that ability.

Yeah, spells are weaker now with the lack of save or die, but they're not that much weaker.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

In my campaign that debuted yesterday, the very first player to choose a 4e PC chose a halfling warlock. He's pretty damn good.

Yesterday there was a big thread about how human sucked while IMO they are the overall strongest race.

A few days ago, in the 'Race arm's race' thread, the OP identified the halfling along with the Eladrin and Dragonborn as the power classes.

There isn't much to argue here. Hard numbers tend to balance fairly evenly, the rest is a matter of opinion.

Obviously you don't like the halfling stats. Don't play one. But as for fixing them? There are more than enough people willing to play a halfling to demonstrate that they need no fixing.

 

[IanArgent]

Just as a note - someone pointed out to me that Teleport effects (unless otherwise specified) require LoS (but not LoE). Since the Eladrin doesn't override teh LoS requirement, it's not terrifically powerful (nice, don't get me wrong; but it means that in the majority of cases the Eladrin could have walked or climbed. There are cases where this is not true - Eladrin make great B&E types into a building with security grates...)

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Just as a note - someone pointed out to me that Teleport effects (unless otherwise specified) require LoS (but not LoE). Since the Eladrin doesn't override teh LoS requirement, it's not terrifically powerful (nice, don't get me wrong; but it means that in the majority of cases the Eladrin could have walked or climbed. There are cases where this is not true - Eladrin make great B&E types into a building with security grates...)

Err, we are OT but I'd point out that the point of short range teleport is to avoid AoO, which it does very well.

In my first fight, the fey pact warlock found himself cornered and about to get slaughtered when it dawned on him that cursing minions and then killing them allowed him to teleport three square without provoking AoE. It saved his bacon.

The Eladrin's ability allows you to move out of trouble or into favorable position once per fight without provoking AoO. These are a much bigger deal than in 3e since you can't tumble as a skill check anymore and since everyone can make one AoO against any given creature that provokes it.

 

[muffin_of_chaos]

In the last 4E game I ran, a halfling took a hit that would have killed her had she been any other races, and made the hit miss. She then turned the fight around through her not-death.
OP? You decide.

 

[Kordeth]

Just as a note - someone pointed out to me that Teleport effects (unless otherwise specified) require LoS (but not LoE). Since the Eladrin doesn't override teh LoS requirement, it's not terrifically powerful (nice, don't get me wrong; but it means that in the majority of cases the Eladrin could have walked or climbed. There are cases where this is not true - Eladrin make great B&E types into a building with security grates...)

I think it's more useful than you give it credit for. Consider:

- No OAs for teleporting.
- Difficult terrain? what's that?
- DC to jump across a 25-ft. gap: 50 (25 with a running start).
- Move actions required to climb a 25-ft. wall: 2
- Big trap trigger in the middle of the room? Hop right past it!

 

[Irda Ranger]

It's really too early for this discussion, but I'll have it anyway.

To be honest, I think it's the poor tiefling that's rubbish this time around.

I agree with BOTH of the above statements.

Last night I did a thorough comparison of the races so that I could convert two races unique to my campaign over to 4E, and looking at them all side by side made two things really clear:
1. Half-elves are only any good if you pick a killer at-will power to be your racial power, one that really suits your build.
2. Tieflings suck.

Honestly, I really don't think Fire damage will come up often enough to make their one decent ability balance out well.