Haste - Charge and then Partial Charge (or vice-versa)

[IceBear]

Well, since the Sage ruled that all movement in the round had to be in a straight line with regards to partial charges and then it was published in the DNDFAQ, I'd have to go with that being the intent.

However, with the partial action from haste, I'm less clear. I think I'd treat it as it's own mini-round.

IceBear

 

[S'mon]

I'd certainly allow it, but in most cases it's likely to provoke an AoO as you move away from the initial charge target (unless you have Ride-By Attack and both the horse & rider are Hasted, which is a lot of 'ifs').

 

[Kwalish Kid]

Hmmmm....

I think the intent of introducing partial charge was to allow characters to prepare to charge a foe at a certain time. The partial charge is thus already begun during the readying phase of the round. I would rule that you can only partial charge with a ready action and that all other charges are charges proper.

I would allow the partial action of a haste to be used for a movement action after the charge of a round, however.

 

[Artoomis]

Good stuff, guys, keep it coming....

 

[Artoomis]

Bump - any more opinions?

 

[Artoomis]

Artoomis,

Is that canine-riding Halfling of yours practicing his version of Follow the yellow brick road!

My reading of the spirit of the rules says you cannot change directions.

My reading of the letter of the rules says you can.

Take that for what you will; it is just my opinion. The charge rules are a bit muddy, especially with respect to partial charges.

P.S. How is that paladin working out?

He's working out quite well, thank you. See General Discussion for a look at what it took to create a mini for him. Look for "Mounted Halfling Paladin Figure."

http://test.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=209320#post209320

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Artoomis,

Since you are inviting me to speculate...

I think the designers intent is for Haste to give another "useful" action/attack.

I think that partial charges were an afterthought to make readied actions tactically useful. A 5' step is only tactically useful in a dungeon corridor. IMO, partial charges are otherwise a needless complication.

I think the weird wording of the normal charge rules were to make the charge attack a moving pseudo-full attack action that yields a single attack roll. That is why they talk about straight line only; it is really a single action badly explained as something like a standard action.

I also struggle with the partial actions. I do not think the designers thought it through at all. The mini-round idea has merit, more because it simplifies things than I believe the designers thought of it that way.


From a balance perspective, I am wavering on what is the right answer. Two independent charges in a round is really brutal. But partial charge + full attack is not that far behind.

 

[Artoomis]

From a purely balance perspective, two charges is about equal to a partial charge + full atack, depending upon the level and what feats are involved.

If done with all the riding feats and a lance, they are roughly the same at 11th level+ (this is not just theoritical - practical experience shows this to be true).

The main advantage is if you have Ride-by Attack (or Spring Attack, if you allow it to be used with a charge), since you can get an attack and not stay next to your opponent.

I thought that charging would be far superior, given that my character uses a lance with Spirited Charge, but a few instances of getting caught in direct melee has proved me wrong. There are plenty of variables involved, so this is not true for everyone, and is greatly level-dependent.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The main advantage is if you have Ride-by Attack (or Spring Attack, if you allow it to be used with a charge), since you can get an attack and not stay next to your opponent.

I thought that charging would be far superior, given that my character uses a lance with Spirited Charge, but a few instances of getting caught in direct melee has proved me wrong. There are plenty of variables involved, so this is not true for everyone, and is greatly level-dependent.

I suspect it is only far superior if you have a fat target for the Smite Evil or a nice reach weapons with candidates for Cleave.

Partial charge + full attack is going to give 3 or 4 attacks with no feats spent. Any grunt to do the same trick mounted and get the double damage on the first attack. This very rough gauges at ~4x damage of one normal attack.

You are looking at 3x and 3x damage (not counting really funky tricks) totally 6x, not unreasonable given the number of feats spent.

I would be inclined to give it to you. Maybe because I have a soft spot for paladins.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

in this situation, i'd have to rule "no". even with haste, i seriously doubt there'd be enough time to stop from charging speed, pivot your mount 180 degrees, then charge again.

the whole "move and ready a partial charge in a different direction" thing, though... i'd most definitely allow, without a second thought. when you ready an action, you're stopping and waiting for a specific event to occur. it's impossible to use the "you must maintain momentum" argument here...