Healing problems? Need Help

[The_Spider]

Whats the point in stabilizing a character at dc15?
when using the healing skill.

One option is to stabilize dc 15, means they are no longer dying and remain at negative hitpoints.

As another option the player can choose to heal dc10, using the characters second wind to use a healing surge, which also means they are stabilized.

According to pg.291 and 293

If they choose to activate a healing surge. Hitpoints return to 0 + the value of the surge, the character is no longer dying, and is stabilized.

If they do this and the character has no healing surges left they still return to 1 hp and are no longer dying, which means on their turn they are ready to rock and roll again.

I find it a bit silly that as a standard action someone applying first aid to a dying individual can have them up and engaging in combat in 6 seconds but thats not where im going with this.

So whats the point of stabilizing? If a character is slipping closer to death why would you even use a dc15 check when its inferior to the dc10 check. Are the dcs wrong?

Maybe the stabilize should be dc10 and the actual healing effect dc15?

Or maybe using the healing surge shouldnt restore you to 0 hitpoints that way you may or may not automatically stabilize and could still be dying?

Or maybe stabilizing the character should be a prequisite before using the heal ability of the skill?

How is this suppose to work, will this need errata or house rule?

If you are familiar and have read up on this Id like to hear your thoughts on this matter. Which fix do you like best or do you have something better in mind?

 

[James McMurray]

If you have already used your second wind, you have to be stabilized. You've used up every last resource and are now in truly dire straits.

 

[The_Spider]

If you have already used your second wind, you have to be stabilized. You've used up every last resource and are now in truly dire straits.

I can not find where it says that and it contradicts itself below

pg.295 Under regaining hitpoints

Its says that if a healing effect recquires you to use a healing surge and you have no healing surges left you are restored to 1 hp. According to the RAW if you have 1 or more HP you are not dying, so whats the point in using stabilize? Second wind is a healing effect and refers you to the healing section pg293. Under healing surges it is used as an example.

For reference

pg 185 Heal Skill
pg 291 Second Wind
pg 293 Healing
pg 295 death and dying

 

[abyssaldeath]

That's if you still have your second wind and no surges.

 

[Tzzird]

I think when you are dying you cant use a second wind because it usually requires an action from yourself.
So if no more healings are available stabilizing is the only way to keep you from dying (if you don't roll 20 on save)
??

 

[ForbidenMaster]

I can not find where it says that and it contradicts itself below

pg.295 Under regaining hitpoints

Its says that if a healing effect recquires you to use a healing surge and you have no healing surges left you are restored to 1 hp. According to the RAW if you have 1 or more HP you are not dying, so whats the point in using stabilize? Second wind is a healing effect and refers you to the healing section pg293. Under healing surges it is used as an example.

For reference

pg 185 Heal Skill
pg 291 Second Wind
pg 293 Healing
pg 295 death and dying

That would be if you still had a second wind, but no healing surge.

EDIT: WOW did that take a long time to post. Server must be acting up.

 

[Kordeth]

I can not find where it says that and it contradicts itself below

From PHB p. 291.

Once per Encounter: You can use your second wind once per encounter and can use it again after you take a short rest or an extended rest. Some powers (either yours or another character’s) allow you to spend healing surges without using your second wind.

pg.295 Under regaining hitpoints

Its says that if a healing effect recquires you to use a healing surge and you have no healing surges left you are restored to 1 hp. According to the RAW if you have 1 or more HP you are not dying, so whats the point in using stabilize? Second wind is a healing effect and refers you to the healing section pg293. Under healing surges it is used as an example.

As abyssaldeath said, that rule applies if an effect allows you to spend a healing surge and you have none left. Second wind and healing surge are not the same thing--second wind is, effectively, an encounter power all characters have that allows them to spend a healing surge. Once you've used your second wind once in an encounter, you cannot use it again until you rest, even if an ally triggers it with a Heal check. Ergo you were never able to spend a healing surge, so whether you have any left or not is irrelevant.

 

[baberg]

I'm not 100% sure on what you're asking, but here's how the rules work (as I read them)

PC A is dying and has Second Wind
PC B can, as a DC 10 check, trigger the second wind of PC A
PC A is now prone and has HP equal to his healing surge value

PC A is dying and has used her Second Wind
PC B cannot use the DC 10 check
PC B can, as a DC 15 check, stabilize PC A and keep her from having to continue to roll death saves

PC A is dying with healing surges left
PC B uses a healing skill on PC A (Healing Word)
PC A is prone with HP equal to whatever Healing Word normally heals

PC A is dying with no healing surges left
PC B uses a healing skill on PC A (Healing Word)
PC A is now conscious with 1 hp (p 295, "Healing a dying character")

 

[The_Spider]

That's if you still have your second wind and no surges.

So the only time you would use stabilize if is the character already used thier second wind before getting dropped during an encounter? Im not sure I like that but thats helps.

 

[Kordeth]

So the only time you would use stabilize if is the character already used thier second wind before getting dropped during an encounter? Im not sure I like that but thats helps.

Correct. Stabilize is an option to prevent edge cases where an injured character simply cannot access more healing and would otherwise have to make 50 death saves while the rest of the party takes a short rest to recharge their powers.