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Help! A player wants to play "Captain America"
- Thread starter Rechan
- Start date
Pickles JG
First Post
If he were a two weapon fighting Ranger with a javelin & longsword & the TWF feats he would be +3 prof d8+1 damage main hand & +2 prof d6 damage off hand. He gets the same +1 to AC & Reflex as a light shield from his feat. He can throw his javelin as a ranged attack - though he needs a magic one to really get it working & returning (or "rebounding").
This is a the baseline for what he gets with the shield recoloured as a Javelin. I suspect this would not have quite enough flavour.
If instead he took light shield proficiency feat & the Monk unarmed ability instead of martial (d8 +3 prof) & another feat that let him bash with his light shield as an unarmed attack (while retaining AC boost!) he would be slightly better in melee & would need something like a magic shield that has the property can add its enhancement bonus to damage for bash & thrown attacks & can be used as a thrown weapon. (I reckon this would be like a 3-4 level item for +1)
He would then be a tad stronger than my javelin ranger but that's OK as it needs a specific magic item & the javelin build is very suboptimal.
Ranger is a very good fit - is it the player's view of the character that it is more defendery or yours
This is a the baseline for what he gets with the shield recoloured as a Javelin. I suspect this would not have quite enough flavour.
If instead he took light shield proficiency feat & the Monk unarmed ability instead of martial (d8 +3 prof) & another feat that let him bash with his light shield as an unarmed attack (while retaining AC boost!) he would be slightly better in melee & would need something like a magic shield that has the property can add its enhancement bonus to damage for bash & thrown attacks & can be used as a thrown weapon. (I reckon this would be like a 3-4 level item for +1)
He would then be a tad stronger than my javelin ranger but that's OK as it needs a specific magic item & the javelin build is very suboptimal.
Ranger is a very good fit - is it the player's view of the character that it is more defendery or yours
To answer your question, Pickles, it's mine; the player has yet to even look at the PHB 4e. So issues of class or role hasn't come into play yet. This is just my interpretation of what he's looking for.
What I'm going to do is write up four or five "Character sheets", each using a different class, and explain how they're different as he advances. Using the Pally, Cleric, Warlord, Fighter, and Ranger builds.
The player emphasized fighting unarmed, having and throwing his shield (though he said he doesn't have to throw it right away), so I'm just sticking to the basics.
A d8 +2 or +3 for an unarmed attack is fine for me. The trick is just the details, and what the player wants, really.
What I'm going to do is write up four or five "Character sheets", each using a different class, and explain how they're different as he advances. Using the Pally, Cleric, Warlord, Fighter, and Ranger builds.
The player emphasized fighting unarmed, having and throwing his shield (though he said he doesn't have to throw it right away), so I'm just sticking to the basics.
A d8 +2 or +3 for an unarmed attack is fine for me. The trick is just the details, and what the player wants, really.
Paladin seems easiest conversion to me. Change the class features, leave most of the powers the same, but change the names as you see fit.
Cap's Challenge for Divine Challenge. Works exactly the same
Lay on Knuckles for Lay on Hands. Gives him +2 prof and 1d8 dmg with his fists, but no healing powers.
Heroic Shield for Channel Divinity. He gets to use his shield as an implement and throws it when he uses a ranged implement power.
Edit: I just realized that shields don't have plusses anymore. So last swap is for crap. Will go back to drawing board.
Edit2: Easy sleazy fix. His Holy Symbols are always star shaped and mounted in his shield. Once per encounter he can add implement value, with a minimum of +1 added (for before he gets a magical implement) to all his defenses until start of his next turn. Replaces Channel Divinity.
Cap's Challenge for Divine Challenge. Works exactly the same
Lay on Knuckles for Lay on Hands. Gives him +2 prof and 1d8 dmg with his fists, but no healing powers.
Heroic Shield for Channel Divinity. He gets to use his shield as an implement and throws it when he uses a ranged implement power.
Edit: I just realized that shields don't have plusses anymore. So last swap is for crap. Will go back to drawing board.
Edit2: Easy sleazy fix. His Holy Symbols are always star shaped and mounted in his shield. Once per encounter he can add implement value, with a minimum of +1 added (for before he gets a magical implement) to all his defenses until start of his next turn. Replaces Channel Divinity.
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eamon
Explorer
If the player want's to have a fist+shield style of fighting, it sounds like he's not aiming for a leader, but for a melee fighter. Though that could be ranger, a shield really does hint at a defender - holding the party line, keeping the opponents at bay, and being generally sticky!
I'd say, a paladin or a fighter sound like the most obvious choices for base class, but if the player really wants to play more of a buffer, or more of a striker, then a different base class would be a good starting point.
I'd say, a paladin or a fighter sound like the most obvious choices for base class, but if the player really wants to play more of a buffer, or more of a striker, then a different base class would be a good starting point.
ValhallaGH
Explorer
I really like this idea. This is gold. "Flying Shield of Justice," heheh.
That said, find out how the player wants to play his character. Does he want to anchor the battlefield, lead the combat, simply kill stuff, or create point-and-laugh situations. This will tell you which roles to muck around with.
For attacks, let him have "Heavy Leather Glove". It does 1d6 with a +3 proficiency (short sword stats). It's his glove, so no one else gets to use one.
Shield Bash - Let him use it as an off-hand weapon. Either with a feat, or just because you're an accommodating guy. He'll be startled the first time he tries to TWF and can't but that's no big deal.
Shield Throw - Remember how Cap uses his shield? That ain't a basic attack. Those are some pretty potent ranged attacks; most of them are wizard-style controller effects (area attacks, slow, stun, and marking). Depending upon how Cap-like he wants to be, he may actually want to play a Wizard with funny flavor text. Cleric also works well, either a melee cleric or a "laser" cleric. Things to think about.
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WalterKovacs
First Post
Let's go with Fighter. Scale fits Cap as it doesn't give him an armor penalty. His sheild would be light.
Fist/Glove => Warhammer. +2 prof, 1d10 damage, 'versatile' [he can do a double axe handle if he doesn't have the shield equipped]. The glove costs the same as a warhammer.
Shield => Light shield, treated as a handaxe. Requires Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Defense for it to work as a weapon AND a shield. This not only adds damage to punches/shield melee attacks [since you'll sometimes want to use the shield for fighter attacks relating to axes] but allows you to draw the shield as a minor action, or part of an attack with quick draw, instead of a standard action. Having you count as having a shield AND an off hand weapon [after you take the two feats] will slightly offset your not using a heavy shield to max out AC.
With magic, making your own magic items would be the likely situation as you'd not only want to enchant up your punching glove, but also your shield as a weapon. [as opposed to the 'arm slot' shields that exist]. Of course, given a 'wish list' approach, it's easy to make "equivalent to X" type magic items.
The biggest thing is coming up with ranged attack powers for the fighter to make use of. All the other ranged powers key off abilities other than STR ... and outside of the martial ranged powers, most ranged attacks use implements [so they don't take proficiency into account] not to mention most are for the other archetypes. The paladin's implement powers may be the best to look at for inspiration.
Fist/Glove => Warhammer. +2 prof, 1d10 damage, 'versatile' [he can do a double axe handle if he doesn't have the shield equipped]. The glove costs the same as a warhammer.
Shield => Light shield, treated as a handaxe. Requires Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Defense for it to work as a weapon AND a shield. This not only adds damage to punches/shield melee attacks [since you'll sometimes want to use the shield for fighter attacks relating to axes] but allows you to draw the shield as a minor action, or part of an attack with quick draw, instead of a standard action. Having you count as having a shield AND an off hand weapon [after you take the two feats] will slightly offset your not using a heavy shield to max out AC.
With magic, making your own magic items would be the likely situation as you'd not only want to enchant up your punching glove, but also your shield as a weapon. [as opposed to the 'arm slot' shields that exist]. Of course, given a 'wish list' approach, it's easy to make "equivalent to X" type magic items.
The biggest thing is coming up with ranged attack powers for the fighter to make use of. All the other ranged powers key off abilities other than STR ... and outside of the martial ranged powers, most ranged attacks use implements [so they don't take proficiency into account] not to mention most are for the other archetypes. The paladin's implement powers may be the best to look at for inspiration.
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Pistonrager
First Post
I know the game is supposed to be a "yes" game... but... NO!
Seriously, don't let him do it, or let him do it but don't bend over backwards doing anything to let it work any better than presented by the rules.
If he wants to play a super hero he's playing the wrong game this is dungeons and dragons not marvel supers.
I'm a big fan of reflavoring things for a game where a certain thing doesn't quite exist yet, but this is beyond reflavoring, it's outright abusive.
Have the guy, read the book and come up with a slightly more mainstream concept( like say a double axe dwarf ranger or a gnome warlock that stared into the void and the void stared back)
I can't believe some people would even think giving a fist the same punch as a longsword.... might as well give daggers a d8 as well... do you under stand how ridiculous that is.
Seriously, don't let him do it, or let him do it but don't bend over backwards doing anything to let it work any better than presented by the rules.
If he wants to play a super hero he's playing the wrong game this is dungeons and dragons not marvel supers.
I'm a big fan of reflavoring things for a game where a certain thing doesn't quite exist yet, but this is beyond reflavoring, it's outright abusive.
Have the guy, read the book and come up with a slightly more mainstream concept( like say a double axe dwarf ranger or a gnome warlock that stared into the void and the void stared back)
I can't believe some people would even think giving a fist the same punch as a longsword.... might as well give daggers a d8 as well... do you under stand how ridiculous that is.
lukelightning
First Post
Tell him to play Mutants and Masterminds.
I keep seeing posts like this, "one of my players only plays silver dragons.... I only want to play a necromancer with an army of minions, I only want to play a mind-controller... my player will only play if he can be a Tolkein-esque immortal elf..."
What's next? "I will play, but only if I can play a top-hat from Monopoly!"
I keep seeing posts like this, "one of my players only plays silver dragons.... I only want to play a necromancer with an army of minions, I only want to play a mind-controller... my player will only play if he can be a Tolkein-esque immortal elf..."
What's next? "I will play, but only if I can play a top-hat from Monopoly!"
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