HELP! Avenger issue

[Kordeth]

Tank:

+6 Godplate +20, heavy shield +2. Total +22.

Avenger:

class ability +3. Feat to improve class ability +3. +6 Hide +11. Total so far +17.

So once Dex or Int hits 20 they are equal. Once Dex or Int hits 22 the Avenger is better. Admittedly, the Avenger does pay a heavy "feat tax".

And that's really an edge case, too--Avengers really don't get much out of having a very high Dex/Int, so not only is he paying a heavy feat tax, he's going to be sub-optimal as a striker. And IMHO, at least, being good at your job in 4E is way more important than being a couple of points harder to hit.

 

[Tai]

I'm talking about just armour. The extra AC for masterwork heavy armour crop up at the same rate as it's possible to buy up dex, so a ranger, say, has the same AC with hide and dex 20 as a paladin does with plate (and that's without counting a shield, which most heavy classes get to start with). As they level up, if they keep spending their stats on dex, that will keep them on a par with the paladin's masterwork plate - and the paladin doesn't have to invest in any stats for that. Yes, some light classes get AC bonuses, but most of them start with cloth, and have to drop two feats (and have stats they're unlikely to want) to get to hide.

So yes, the Avenger can manage a very high AC, if he wants to chuck a whole bunch of feats in the bin. I think you'd be better off with a Swordmage, who can manage an AC that's almost as impressive, at least at heroic tier, without compromising their attack stat.

 

[Particle_Man]

And that's really an edge case, too--Avengers really don't get much out of having a very high Dex/Int, so not only is he paying a heavy feat tax, he's going to be sub-optimal as a striker. And IMHO, at least, being good at your job in 4E is way more important than being a couple of points harder to hit.

Well Dex and Int do inform those Encounter Powers Avengers get, as well as AC, Reflex defense, and (in Dex's case) initiative. Its not like Strength or Charisma does much for them (except for the Fort defense and some feat prerequisites). Hit Points are nice, I guess. Wisdom is where the hitting and damage comes from, so that should be high (although, curiously, Avengers more than other classes can let their primary stat slide a little, relying on their class ability to hit more often with a lower stat than other classes with a primary stat that low).

Personally, I would even give up on Str, just go up to Leather. You still have a nice AC.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

And IMHO, at least, being good at your job in 4E is way more important than being a couple of points harder to hit.

I would disagree. Sometimes there can be good reasons to "branch out". You might deal less damage, but to compensate, you can last longer.

Of course, if you want your combats to be fast, extra damage and extra to hits are more important than surviving a little longer.

 

[Flipguarder]

it REALLY depends on your party make-up. A standard party I would just say forgo the wierd stuff and be the striker you're supposed to be. If you have a warlock and a cleric and nobody else, then high ac might be a decent idea.

 

[Nail]

it REALLY depends on your party make-up. A standard party I would just say forgo the wierd stuff and be the striker you're supposed to be.

Agreed.

Tangent: has anyone done a striker-heavy party, and then done a striker-light party? Difference in combat lengths?

 

[DrSpunj]

That'd be worth forking, IMO, Nail. I'd be curious too and very few are going to see this unless it's its own thread. Would you like to do the honors?

 

[Herschel]

Agreed.

Tangent: has anyone done a striker-heavy party, and then done a striker-light party? Difference in combat lengths?

I've only played striker-heavy a couple of times but have played striker-light pretty often. Combat lengths haven't made much different. Striker-heavy a little quicker vs. solos maybe, but in general the other party did better, especially against larger numbers of foes.