Help Build An Uber-Tank!
Gort
Explorer
Endur said:
Any melee brute will rip this guy to shreds! (EG, a Tarrasque power attacking for 32 on each one of his six attacks, missing on 1s, damage in the region of 270 points of damage in one round)
As I read it, the poster wanted someone who'd last more than two rounds against a CR 20 monster.
Why not dump some of those books and buy some armour?
DM-Rocco
Explorer
I am sure that the damage reduction does stack and I only put a 1/2 hour of thought into this guy, as is evedent by the fact that I forgot he also needs the toughness feat and the endurance feat, I forgot one so shoose one of the others above to drop.
I went off of the previous one, which used books, you could stack his armor class highenough so that no 20 could hit it, I will take a look at it a bit later today ro amybe tomorrow
I went off of the previous one, which used books, you could stack his armor class highenough so that no 20 could hit it, I will take a look at it a bit later today ro amybe tomorrow
Endur
First Post
If you are fighting a Tarrasque in melee, then yes, your character should be dead. 
I bought the books because I wanted to make a simple straight forward character with no magic items. The books just pumped up stats, but left the character very basic. Remember, this is a PC for someone who has never played D&D before.
And, for what's it worth, in a epic campaign where all of the other characters in the party were traditional epic-magic item using PCs, one PC slew the main bad guy, persuaded the primary ally to do as the PC desired, received the primary quest item treasure, and got the girl. I'll leave it to your imagination to guess which PC accomplished all that.
I bought the books because I wanted to make a simple straight forward character with no magic items. The books just pumped up stats, but left the character very basic. Remember, this is a PC for someone who has never played D&D before.
And, for what's it worth, in a epic campaign where all of the other characters in the party were traditional epic-magic item using PCs, one PC slew the main bad guy, persuaded the primary ally to do as the PC desired, received the primary quest item treasure, and got the girl. I'll leave it to your imagination to guess which PC accomplished all that.
Gort said:
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DM-Rocco
Explorer
Camarath, I can't find it off hand, but I recall reading somewhere it said you could stack them, perhaps it was in a forum in Dragon magazine. Reguardless, he would still have a 6/dr at the least, and that is good.
The damage reduction does bring up a good point though, if you have admantine armor and invulnerability, do they stack. If they do, why wouldn't class dr?
just found it, DMG page 292, your right, they don't stack, although O could have sworn I read they did somewhere, oh well.
Okay, after reading that he wants to be able to go head to toe with a CR 20, I would have to say that this is a bit weak. First off, your DM is way to generous if you can handle a Tarrasque pre epic level, one on one. Even in a group the Tarrasque will rip most to shreds, although it can be done. Reguardless, Dragons, demons and Devils are your only other creature options for CR 20 play in a straight up fight so if you want someone to stand toe to toe with them, give them a high AC.
Level 6 fighter, level 10 dwarven defender, 4 levels paladin
Basic Dwarf, change at your decresstion
Alignment: Any lawful
Feats
dodge
power attack
improved Critical Long sword (or whatever turns your crank for a one handed weapon)
Improved Initiative
combat expertise
weapon focus (pick a weapon)
weapon specialization
improved combat expertise
endurance
toughness
32 point buy
str 16 +6 enhancment bonus = 22
dex 12 + 2 level = 14
con 20 +3 level + 5 inherent =28
int 8 + 5 inhernet = 13
wis 8
chr 6
hit points: 10d10 (fighter) + 10d12 (dwarven defender) + 3 (toughness) + 180 (con) = 205-403 hit points + 40 hit points when in defensive stance
armor class: 10 +1 dex + 13 armor +9 shield + 5 dodge (4 if they are not your dodge target) up to +10 for combat expert + 5 for amulet of natural armor + 5 ring of protection = 47-58 + 4 for dodge in defensive stance up to a 62
initiative: +8
Fort: +5 (fighter) +7 (dwarven defender) +4 (paladin) + 9 (con) +5 (cloak) = 30
Will: +2 (fighter) +7 (dwarven defender) +1 (paladin) +5 (cloak) -1 (wis) = 14
Reflex: +2 (fighter) + 3 (dwarven Defender) + 2 (dex) + 1 (paladin) + 5 (cloak) = 13
Immune to crit hits and sneak attacks (armor)
Damage Reduction: 9/- 6(dwarven defender) 3 (armor)
skill ranks (does not include modifiers or what and when you use your tome to raise you int)
Intimidate 23
languages: common, dwarf
magic items
manual of bodily health 137,000
Manual of Intelligence +5: 137,000 gp
long sword holy avenger: 60,000
ring of freedom of movement 40,000
ring of protection +5 50,000
gauntlets of STR +6 36,000gp
Full plate +5, heavy forification made of admantine 100,000gp
Tower shield +5 of reflection 126,000gp
Amulet of natural armor +5 50,000gp
claok of resistance +5 25,000
boots of speed 12,000
Okay, went a few levels of paladin because the CR 20 creatures love to give you diseases and fear effects, plus you can use the holy avenger, which is stil good at lower level. Modify the stats to your liking to make use of the CHR based saving bonus if you wish. Even at a 6 DR he is fairly strong since his AC can get as high as 63 when hasted, making the Tarrasque miss 50% of the time, pretty good since you will bemune to any crits. At that score, all of the demons, devils and dragons, including the CR 20's will miss completly, unless they use the natural 20 rule.
The ring of freedom of movement prohibits the Tarrasque from swollowing you since he has to grapple to do it and the cloak of resistance helps out on saves big time. Only really weak in the energy department now since I switched the shield.
If the AC is still to low for your guy, call upon your 20th level mage companion to enchant a other item, an item with a bonus not intended for use in an item, such as a pair of boots of infernal quickness +5 profane bonus to AC, as per page 285 DMG. If your DM is insane, or not thinking clearly, you could squeeze anther 20 points to AC through luck, sacred, profane and insight bonuses.
Finally, there of course are other things you could do to this character to make it better, like add henchmen, make a speacial mount, go a completly different way with items or feats, but it is time for bed. See ya.
The damage reduction does bring up a good point though, if you have admantine armor and invulnerability, do they stack. If they do, why wouldn't class dr?
just found it, DMG page 292, your right, they don't stack, although O could have sworn I read they did somewhere, oh well.
Okay, after reading that he wants to be able to go head to toe with a CR 20, I would have to say that this is a bit weak. First off, your DM is way to generous if you can handle a Tarrasque pre epic level, one on one. Even in a group the Tarrasque will rip most to shreds, although it can be done. Reguardless, Dragons, demons and Devils are your only other creature options for CR 20 play in a straight up fight so if you want someone to stand toe to toe with them, give them a high AC.
Level 6 fighter, level 10 dwarven defender, 4 levels paladin
Basic Dwarf, change at your decresstion
Alignment: Any lawful
Feats
dodge
power attack
improved Critical Long sword (or whatever turns your crank for a one handed weapon)
Improved Initiative
combat expertise
weapon focus (pick a weapon)
weapon specialization
improved combat expertise
endurance
toughness
32 point buy
str 16 +6 enhancment bonus = 22
dex 12 + 2 level = 14
con 20 +3 level + 5 inherent =28
int 8 + 5 inhernet = 13
wis 8
chr 6
hit points: 10d10 (fighter) + 10d12 (dwarven defender) + 3 (toughness) + 180 (con) = 205-403 hit points + 40 hit points when in defensive stance
armor class: 10 +1 dex + 13 armor +9 shield + 5 dodge (4 if they are not your dodge target) up to +10 for combat expert + 5 for amulet of natural armor + 5 ring of protection = 47-58 + 4 for dodge in defensive stance up to a 62
initiative: +8
Fort: +5 (fighter) +7 (dwarven defender) +4 (paladin) + 9 (con) +5 (cloak) = 30
Will: +2 (fighter) +7 (dwarven defender) +1 (paladin) +5 (cloak) -1 (wis) = 14
Reflex: +2 (fighter) + 3 (dwarven Defender) + 2 (dex) + 1 (paladin) + 5 (cloak) = 13
Immune to crit hits and sneak attacks (armor)
Damage Reduction: 9/- 6(dwarven defender) 3 (armor)
skill ranks (does not include modifiers or what and when you use your tome to raise you int)
Intimidate 23
languages: common, dwarf
magic items
manual of bodily health 137,000
Manual of Intelligence +5: 137,000 gp
long sword holy avenger: 60,000
ring of freedom of movement 40,000
ring of protection +5 50,000
gauntlets of STR +6 36,000gp
Full plate +5, heavy forification made of admantine 100,000gp
Tower shield +5 of reflection 126,000gp
Amulet of natural armor +5 50,000gp
claok of resistance +5 25,000
boots of speed 12,000
Okay, went a few levels of paladin because the CR 20 creatures love to give you diseases and fear effects, plus you can use the holy avenger, which is stil good at lower level. Modify the stats to your liking to make use of the CHR based saving bonus if you wish. Even at a 6 DR he is fairly strong since his AC can get as high as 63 when hasted, making the Tarrasque miss 50% of the time, pretty good since you will bemune to any crits. At that score, all of the demons, devils and dragons, including the CR 20's will miss completly, unless they use the natural 20 rule.
The ring of freedom of movement prohibits the Tarrasque from swollowing you since he has to grapple to do it and the cloak of resistance helps out on saves big time. Only really weak in the energy department now since I switched the shield.
If the AC is still to low for your guy, call upon your 20th level mage companion to enchant a other item, an item with a bonus not intended for use in an item, such as a pair of boots of infernal quickness +5 profane bonus to AC, as per page 285 DMG. If your DM is insane, or not thinking clearly, you could squeeze anther 20 points to AC through luck, sacred, profane and insight bonuses.
Finally, there of course are other things you could do to this character to make it better, like add henchmen, make a speacial mount, go a completly different way with items or feats, but it is time for bed. See ya.
Endur
First Post
The level 20 version of Endur (But this will no longer be a simple character).
level 10 Paladin, level 10 Dwarven Defender
Mountain Dwarf
Lawful Good
Feats
Power Attack
Improved Critical Dwarven War Axe
Weapon Focus Dwarven War Axe
Divine Might
Endurance
Toughness
Dodge
32 point buy
str 14 +6 enhancment bonus +5 inherent= 25
dex 14 +2 enhancement bonus = 16
con 14 + 5 inherent +6 enhancment bonus=25
int 10
wis 14
chr 12 +5 inherent +5 level +6 enhancement bonus=28
hit points: 4d10 (fighter) + 6d10 (paladin) 10d12 (dwarven defender) + 3 (toughness) + 140 (con) = 165-363 hit points + 40 hit points when in defensive stance
armor class: 10 +3 dex + 13 armor +7 shield + 4 dwarven defender + 1 dodge if they are your dodge target) + 5 for amulet of natural armor + 5 ring of protection +4 defensive stance +1 haste + ?other
initiative: +3
Fort: +7 (dwarven defender) +7 (paladin) + 7 (con) +5 (cloak) +9 (chr)= 35
Will: +7 (dwarven defender) +3 (paladin) +5 (cloak) +2 (wis) +9 (chr) = 26
Reflex: + 3 (dwarven Defender) + 3 (dex) + 3 (paladin) + 5 (cloak) +9 chr= 23
Immune to crit hits and sneak attacks (armor)
Damage Reduction: 6(dwarven defender)
skill ranks (does not include modifiers or what and when you use your tome to raise you int)
Various skills, 46 skill points
languages: common, dwarf
magic items
manual of bodily health 137,000
Manual of Strength: 137,000 gp
Manual of Charisma: 137,000 gp
dwarven war axe, adamantine holy giantbane: 60,000
ring of freedom of movement 40,000
ring of protection +5 50,000
gauntlets of STR +6 36,000gp
Cloak of Charisma +6 36,000 gp
bracers of constitution +6 36,000 gp
Full plate +5, heavy forification made of mithral 100,000gp
Large shield +5 of reflection 126,000gp
Amulet of natural armor +5 50,000gp
vest of resistance +5 25,000
boots of speed 12,000
Special Mount: Dire Wolf
Smite Evil: 3/day, +9 to hit, +10 to damage
Divine Might: 12/day, lasts 9 rounds, +9 to damage
level 10 Paladin, level 10 Dwarven Defender
Mountain Dwarf
Lawful Good
Feats
Power Attack
Improved Critical Dwarven War Axe
Weapon Focus Dwarven War Axe
Divine Might
Endurance
Toughness
Dodge
32 point buy
str 14 +6 enhancment bonus +5 inherent= 25
dex 14 +2 enhancement bonus = 16
con 14 + 5 inherent +6 enhancment bonus=25
int 10
wis 14
chr 12 +5 inherent +5 level +6 enhancement bonus=28
hit points: 4d10 (fighter) + 6d10 (paladin) 10d12 (dwarven defender) + 3 (toughness) + 140 (con) = 165-363 hit points + 40 hit points when in defensive stance
armor class: 10 +3 dex + 13 armor +7 shield + 4 dwarven defender + 1 dodge if they are your dodge target) + 5 for amulet of natural armor + 5 ring of protection +4 defensive stance +1 haste + ?other
initiative: +3
Fort: +7 (dwarven defender) +7 (paladin) + 7 (con) +5 (cloak) +9 (chr)= 35
Will: +7 (dwarven defender) +3 (paladin) +5 (cloak) +2 (wis) +9 (chr) = 26
Reflex: + 3 (dwarven Defender) + 3 (dex) + 3 (paladin) + 5 (cloak) +9 chr= 23
Immune to crit hits and sneak attacks (armor)
Damage Reduction: 6(dwarven defender)
skill ranks (does not include modifiers or what and when you use your tome to raise you int)
Various skills, 46 skill points
languages: common, dwarf
magic items
manual of bodily health 137,000
Manual of Strength: 137,000 gp
Manual of Charisma: 137,000 gp
dwarven war axe, adamantine holy giantbane: 60,000
ring of freedom of movement 40,000
ring of protection +5 50,000
gauntlets of STR +6 36,000gp
Cloak of Charisma +6 36,000 gp
bracers of constitution +6 36,000 gp
Full plate +5, heavy forification made of mithral 100,000gp
Large shield +5 of reflection 126,000gp
Amulet of natural armor +5 50,000gp
vest of resistance +5 25,000
boots of speed 12,000
Special Mount: Dire Wolf
Smite Evil: 3/day, +9 to hit, +10 to damage
Divine Might: 12/day, lasts 9 rounds, +9 to damage
two
First Post
Yeah -- that's the kind of build I was talking about!
Paladin10/DDefender10... that works. Might want to swap out a few Paladin levels for something else, or not.
However, it seems a terrible oversight with a Charisma of 28 to fail to take the leadership feat, scoring yourself (at level 20) a level 18 cohort, such as:
1) Cleric18, or
2) some flavor of fighter/rogue/etc. devoted defender.
I'd probably go the Cleric route, for the always-on buffing potentials and the fact that the only thing scarier than a 400 HP tank is a 400 HP tank who can be "healed" 5 or 6 times a combat!
Also note the pleasent synergies available, i.e. death ward, etc. etc.
Paladin10/DDefender10... that works. Might want to swap out a few Paladin levels for something else, or not.
However, it seems a terrible oversight with a Charisma of 28 to fail to take the leadership feat, scoring yourself (at level 20) a level 18 cohort, such as:
1) Cleric18, or
2) some flavor of fighter/rogue/etc. devoted defender.
I'd probably go the Cleric route, for the always-on buffing potentials and the fact that the only thing scarier than a 400 HP tank is a 400 HP tank who can be "healed" 5 or 6 times a combat!
Also note the pleasent synergies available, i.e. death ward, etc. etc.
dvvega
Explorer
I created a tank type character in 3.0 which used Masters of the Wild a lot.
He was only 6th level, however he had over 100 hps at that level and it was all within the rules of play. I could have made him even "tankier" however my co-DM (we alternated) and I agreed that class combining had to be justified.
I don't have an electronic copy, nor do I have the paper copy around, however I can remember parts of the build:
The key was getting his base Fortitude up as high as possible. With an 18 CON, +2 for Dwarf and a ring of fortitude +2 (all I could afford at the time).
Dwarf Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2
He chose all the Toughness Feats (Toughness, Dwarf's Toughness, Giant's Toughness etc) whenever they were available, spending all his feats on them except for 2. These were take as Fast Healing and Extra Rage. With his CON the way it was, his rage lasted something like 9 rounds, so Extra Rage gave him bonus rages per day. The Fast Healing was so the cleric wouldn't have to constantly heal him.
Having the Ranger levels also allowed use of divine healing wands and so forth. Obviously "back then" he could fight with two weapons as a standard at first level, however it was not an important ability.
If you are allowed to take those feats still, then the build is still viable as far as I can tell.
He was only 6th level, however he had over 100 hps at that level and it was all within the rules of play. I could have made him even "tankier" however my co-DM (we alternated) and I agreed that class combining had to be justified.
I don't have an electronic copy, nor do I have the paper copy around, however I can remember parts of the build:
The key was getting his base Fortitude up as high as possible. With an 18 CON, +2 for Dwarf and a ring of fortitude +2 (all I could afford at the time).
Dwarf Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2
He chose all the Toughness Feats (Toughness, Dwarf's Toughness, Giant's Toughness etc) whenever they were available, spending all his feats on them except for 2. These were take as Fast Healing and Extra Rage. With his CON the way it was, his rage lasted something like 9 rounds, so Extra Rage gave him bonus rages per day. The Fast Healing was so the cleric wouldn't have to constantly heal him.
Having the Ranger levels also allowed use of divine healing wands and so forth. Obviously "back then" he could fight with two weapons as a standard at first level, however it was not an important ability.
If you are allowed to take those feats still, then the build is still viable as far as I can tell.
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