Help for the Environment rules for a Black Hole 3.5E/PF1

[Obly99]

Hello boy, you have some rules for the environment of a Black Hole? Upper_Krust many years ago, in his blog (Immortality) put what the sun, the fire plane and many others would have done in a constant way. Does anyone have rules for the environment of a black hole, the DC to avoid being sucked in, the distance from which to start role the dice, the damage if you get sucked into it and all the rest? If there are no rules already in place, I am open to advice on how to put them. Regulation is 3.5E / PF1 and if possible it should be a challenge for Greater Deity and below (Intermediate Deity and below should fail apart from special cases, Greater Deity have a lot of difficulty but if they are built well they can make it with some difficulty and luck, while the Elder One and above Sidereals can do it without too much effort). Sorry for any poor English grammar.
EDIT:
Necessary specification, in my setting the deities are not automatically immune to all natural effects.
Demi-Deity and below: They are not automatically immune to all natural effects.
Lesser-Greater Deity: Immune to all natural planetary effects (eruptions, earthquakes, arctic cold, etc.) + cold of the outer space but not to effect from space (meteors, gamma rays from solar eruption, etc.)
Sidereals: Immune to most "space" effects but with a limit based on their power (Elder One and Old One are immune to solar radiation but not to a black hole, First One are immune to a black hole but not to a supernova) .
Demiurge: Immune to all effects of a single dimension except the most catastrophic ones such as the Big Bang.
Time Lord +: Totally immune to natural effects of the smaller dimensions but not to those of the Pleroma.

 

[Beefermatic]

Hello boy, you have some rules for the environment of a Black Hole? Upper_Krust many years ago, in his blog (Immortality) put what the sun, the fire plane and many others would have done in a constant way. Does anyone have rules for the environment of a black hole, the DC to avoid being sucked in, the distance from which to start role the dice, the damage if you get sucked into it and all the rest? If there are no rules already in place, I am open to advice on how to put them. Regulation is 3.5E / PF1 and if possible it should be a challenge for Greater Deity and below (Intermediate Deity and below should fail apart from special cases, Greater Deity have a lot of difficulty but if they are built well they can make it with some difficulty and luck, while the Elder One and above Sidereals can do it without too much effort). Sorry for any poor English grammar.

A God's natural immunity would render the powers of all the cosmos' most powerful effects useless. A God can walk on the surface of the sun, stick his head into a black hole, or take a bath in lava without injury or death.

 

[Obly99]

A God's natural immunity would render the powers of all the cosmos' most powerful effects useless. A God can walk on the surface of the sun, stick his head into a black hole, or take a bath in lava without injury or death.

Beefermatic thanks for pointing out the need for Edit

 

[GMMichael]

Does anyone have rules for the environment of a black hole, the DC to avoid being sucked in, the distance from which to start role the dice, the damage if you get sucked into it and all the rest?

DC to avoid the event horizon: 40.
Distance for making a check = 5000 feet - (level x 100)
Damage on failure: I think falling damage was capped at 10d6?
All the rest: time slows down as gravity increases. Buuut gods aren't affected by gravity. So, I think the two cancel out and gods continue at normal speed when in a black hole.

 

[Beefermatic]

Beefermatic thanks for pointing out the need for Edit

Why would this require an edit? You're talking about Gods. Shouldn't they, idk, be God-like? ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Beefermatic]

Beefermatic thanks for pointing out the need for Edit

The caveat to this is that I make it so things with intention still can effect a God. That is to say, a black hole, for example that actually has a powerful sidereal as it's source would affect a God normally, likewise a God could walk into a forest fire unharmed but if they randomly were struck by an alchemist fire thrown at them, they'd take damage. In that way you can simultaneously have actually God-like Gods who also you can actually use in a storyline easily.

 

[Beefermatic]

DC to avoid the event horizon: 40.
Distance for making a check = 5000 feet - (level x 100)
Damage on failure: I think falling damage was capped at 10d6?
All the rest: time slows down as gravity increases. Buuut gods aren't affected by gravity. So, I think the two cancel out and gods continue at normal speed when in a black hole.

Exactly. There are God-like outsiders however who don't have Divine Immunity who would need the rules presented above. Though tbh I'd make the DC WAAAAAAAY higher that DC 40. DC 40 is next to nothing in IH, DC 400 would be more on point. Case in point would be the Neutronium Golem, which though presented as the most powerful creation in the basic IH Bestiary, is pretty insignificant next to the power of an Old One or First One, much less a Demiurge. But, using that as a basic benchmark, given that it is in fact neutron star degenerate matter, it's the closest thing we have to an actual black hole as statted from a official source.

Thusly a neutron star, which is far less dense than a black hole, should have a considerably higher gravitational well than a Neutronium Golem due to the fact of sheer mass, a Neutronium Golem being 8 feet tall and a Neutron Star being the size of a city.

But let's just say for sake of argument, we use the base stats for the DCs of a Neutronium Golem, the DC should be at least 381, or 461 depending on which DC you go off of. At minimum.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello boy,

Howdy Obly99!

weirdly not getting emails about new posts, only replies. Hence my delay in responding.

you have some rules for the environment of a Black Hole? Upper_Krust many years ago, in his blog (Immortality) put what the sun, the fire plane and many others would have done in a constant way. Does anyone have rules for the environment of a black hole, the DC to avoid being sucked in, the distance from which to start role the dice, the damage if you get sucked into it and all the rest? If there are no rules already in place, I am open to advice on how to put them. Regulation is 3.5E / PF1 and if possible it should be a challenge for Greater Deity and below (Intermediate Deity and below should fail apart from special cases, Greater Deity have a lot of difficulty but if they are built well they can make it with some difficulty and luck, while the Elder One and above Sidereals can do it without too much effort). Sorry for any poor English grammar.
EDIT:
Necessary specification, in my setting the deities are not automatically immune to all natural effects.
Demi-Deity and below: They are not automatically immune to all natural effects.
Lesser-Greater Deity: Immune to all natural planetary effects (eruptions, earthquakes, arctic cold, etc.) + cold of the outer space but not to effect from space (meteors, gamma rays from solar eruption, etc.)
Sidereals: Immune to most "space" effects but with a limit based on their power (Elder One and Old One are immune to solar radiation but not to a black hole, First One are immune to a black hole but not to a supernova) .
Demiurge: Immune to all effects of a single dimension except the most catastrophic ones such as the Big Bang.
Time Lord +: Totally immune to natural effects of the smaller dimensions but not to those of the Pleroma.

Its very interesting trying to balance divine power but temper that with making an environment interesting for gods to do battle in. A black hole is one such potential example.

While my base opinion is that 'natural' effects probably shouldn't hurt a (full) deity, it becomes a grey area when you get into space and stellar objects. "If a planet explodes when a god is standing on it, is the god fine!?"

In addition you have the power to introduce a magical element - which then means gods ARE affected and that creates an annoying absolute.

Converted to raw numbers a black hole is going to probably destroy even a sidereal in a fairly short space of time. But if it has zero effect on 'gods' then there is no point to any of it - in effect you are taking the coolness of the black hole out of the equation.

Hypothetically Gods should only really be invulnerable to natural phenomena on their home plane, but again that brings us back to an absolute.

I'll mull over this and get back on the subject tomorrow (temporarily pressed for time here this evening).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey beefermatic amigo!

The caveat to this is that I make it so things with intention still can effect a God. That is to say, a black hole, for example that actually has a powerful sidereal as it's source would affect a God normally, likewise a God could walk into a forest fire unharmed but if they randomly were struck by an alchemist fire thrown at them, they'd take damage. In that way you can simultaneously have actually God-like Gods who also you can actually use in a storyline easily.

While I agree with this, the absolute it creates annoys me. It renders potentially epic environments (Surface of the Sun, Event Horizon of a Black Hole etc.) impotent UNLESS we give them either a magical component or intellectual component. Which poses the question why would we ever bother to NOT have them be a threat to gods - it becomes FAR more interesting when they can affect immortals to a degree.

It might be better to give certain environments a damage component and then let individual gods worry about whether they can handle that damage and for how long.

Would a Volcano melt Adamantite? If not it would deal less than 20 damage per round.
Would the surface of the Sun melt Orichalcum? If not it would deal less than 100 damage per round.
Would an Event Horizon melt Neutronium? If not it would deal less than 1500 damage per round.
etc.

I'm working on a new way to handle epic environments* (in 5E) and hopefully that will be an easy conversion back to 3.5E.

*Unrelated to anything above

 

[Beefermatic]

Hey beefermatic amigo!



While I agree with this, the absolute it creates annoys me. It renders potentially epic environments (Surface of the Sun, Event Horizon of a Black Hole etc.) impotent UNLESS we give them either a magical component or intellectual component. Which poses the question why would we ever bother to NOT have them be a threat to gods - it becomes FAR more interesting when they can affect immortals to a degree.

It might be better to give certain environments a damage component and then let individual gods worry about whether they can handle that damage and for how long.

Would a Volcano melt Adamantite? If not it would deal less than 20 damage per round.
Would the surface of the Sun melt Orichalcum? If not it would deal less than 100 damage per round.
Would an Event Horizon melt Neutronium? If not it would deal less than 1500 damage per round.
etc.

I'm working on a new way to handle epic environments* (in 5E) and hopefully that will be an easy conversion back to 3.5E.

*Unrelated to anything above

Idk I have a lot of space battles and such in my campaigns and a large amount of my campaigns take place in space or other extreme environments.

I think Gods should be able to be in those environments without harm, I always felt that in terms of mechanics most gods aren't really godlike in terms of the limits of their power in either Deities and Demigods or IH, so to have something where they're legitimately unharmed by the universe as they are the universe, makes sense and makes them very imposing by mortal standards. They aren't just human+'s they're something much more, and I think no other ability they possess really exhibits that more than their natural immunity, much like a Sidereal's Cosmic String.

You can easily make scenarios showcasing the power of the cosmos without making your character's in danger themselves, ships falling into the gravity well of a black hole, two neutron stars colliding and spraying chunks of Neutronium everywhere across light-years and inhabited worlds in the way. The gods have to save that ship or save those world's, just because Superman isn't effected by something doesn't mean everything he cares about isnt. It just takes a tiny amount of finesse as a storyteller, and not making hamhanded storylines to make it work easily.

Honestly, ask yourself, beyond a few minor buffs and access to divine abilities what makes an immortal truly separate from an epic mortal without their mastery over the places they go? If a God is subject to the same dangers a human is, what makes them a God? They're barely more than a human at that point, more like an advanced half angel or something, and I don't even thing that's opinion really, I think mechanically that's what would be reflected.