Help me build a bada$$ fighter

[Gaiden]

I want to design a versatile warrior who excels in melee combat. I am looking for several things:

1. Great defensive capabilities (AC, Saves, etc.)
2. Battlefield Control (mobility, motility, and threat range)
3. Strictly martial abilities - I am not looking for a spellcaster, although I would consider a psychic warrior if for only the psionic feats.
4. Counterstrikes - Everytime an opponent attempts to harm the character I want him to be able to deliver retribution that is downright vicious.


I came up with the following: Fighter 16, Monk 4

Skills: Jump, Tumble, Balance, Climb
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Spring Attack Combat Reflexes, Defensive Throw, Deft Opportunist, Hold the Line, Power Attack, Quickdraw, Hurling Charge, Improved Overrun, Cleave, Expert Tactician, Mage Slayer, Close Quarters Combat, Sidestep

Expertise, Dodge, Dex, and Wis would grant a reasonable AC. The monk gives Evasion and a decent boost to all the character's saves. With a decent pair of bracers of armor his AC would be quite nice and considering Wis and Dex would be his prime ability scores, his Reflex and Will saves would not be that far behind his Fort.

The reach weapon combined with Improved Trip is also a good defensive ability in that he can prevent attacks against him by preventing the opponent from reaching him while at the same time providing excellent battlefield control. Combined with IUS, he does not have to worry about the lack of 5' threat range and quickdraw would allow him to draw a throwing weapon as a free action (after switching to a one handed grip on his reach weapon), throw the weapon with an attack, and then switch back to a two handed grip (as a free action) with his reach weapon. Spring Attacking grants all that feat entails as well as optimizing AoO's (with CR) with his reach weapon. Sidestep gives him that much more flexibility of movement (and combined with AoO's with a reach weapon provides the potential for more than one AoO against an advancing throw).

Finally, this guy has specialized counterstrikes against various foes - if the foe charges him, even if he has 10' reach, that foe will still provoke an AoO. And given spring attack and this character's increased movement from monk, it will be likely that the foe would at least have to move to reach him and possibly charge to move far enough. Close Quarters Combat virtually nixes all types of grappling (which can be very scary at higher levels). Finally, if opponents miss when they attack him, he can attempt to trip them, then attack if successful (and then move away) if there was any question if they were too close to him.

I was also toying with Grappling Block - that way, even if they hit him, he could negate it and then take away their weapon. Combined with Defensive throw, if the GB was successful, he could then get a free trip attack. With Snatch Weapon, he could gain an additional attack using the opponent's own weapon. To use this all effectively, he could not wield a reach weapon though, although, the mental image of stepping into a great axe wielding charging half orc barbarian, head butting him (hold the line), grabbing the great axe as it most certainly would have cleaved your head in two, and twisting it so it in fact embeds itself in the half orc's shoulder (snatch weapon), then using the barbarian's momentum to throw him over yourself while you yourself drop to your back on the ground, taking his great axe from him and then slamming it into his sternum as he is prone is just really freaking awesome if you ask me.

 

[Gaiden]

No one's a taker?

 

[Lasher Dragon]

I think your build looks tight... that sure seems like a lotta feats, but I am too intoxicated right now to try to add them up. The only somewhat useful thing I have to say here is that I have become enamored with the Oversized Two Weapon Fighting feat from the Complete Adventurer. I don't know if it matters, with your monk levels, but quick-drawing and wielding 2 different sets of magical nunchaku, or kamas, or anything similar seems like that would be so Bruce Lee.

 

[Deset Gled]

Looks like you've got this pretty well under control by yourself.

As long as I'm here, though, I'll nitpick the build a little:
Don't bother with quickdraw. Monks are proficient with shuriken, which are treated as ammo (meaning you can draw them as a free action).
Having Dex and Wis as your primary abilities will help with AC, but you're going to pay for it a lot. Your HP are going to suck (low con and four levels of monk), and you're going to have a hard time getting use out of that tripping stuff (opposed Str checks) against any melee types. Your damage will also be on the low side. But hey, you can't have everything.

 

[DM_Matt]

My favorite fighter build!

If you want battlefield control and tripping, you should invest in a large size race. I suggest the Half Ogre. Even updated to its ECL +2 its worth it, especially at high levels. You get your enhanced reach, large size gives you +4 to trips and grapples, your weapons do more damage, and you get +6 str for offense, and +4 con and +4 natural armor for some great defensive benefits.

I'd also suggest using a greatsword instead of having an extra bit of reach. This way you don't have gaps in your threatened areas and get to use a much better and more damaging weapon. Also, Hold the Line (CW) is excellent. Only prereq is Combat Reflexes, and it gives you an AOO whenever anyone charges you. Also, if you are going mobile tank, combine leap attack (CAd, prereq PA) with that greatsword for 4-1 power attack.

By the way, expertise sucks except at low levels. Offensive power quickly outstrips defensive power. It will come down to actions and attacks. The best defense, especially if you are a fighter, is to kill them first and/or to prevent them from attacking with spring attack, grappling block, defensive throw, and hold the line + improved trip. Note also that Expertise wrecks your attack bonus that you need for all of these important moves. Grappling block especially requires a high attack bonus if you have a good AC, because you have to be able to reliably hit well over your own AC for it to work.

 

[BAW]

What are the restrictions?

You've not giving people much to go on.
Is the build of a level 20 character? (I'm assuming so from what I've seen you post)
Are there any race restrictions?
What sources can be used?
If you will answer those 3 things along with the amount of starting money your character has then I'll have a go.

Cheers
B.A.W.

 

[DM_Matt]

Ok, here we go, alternative build for the job, 28 point buy

BUILD 1

Half-Orge Fighter 12/Monk 6/ECL +2

Str 34 / Dex 16 / Con 20 / Int 10 / Wis 10 / Cha 6 (Items: Str +6, Con +6, Dex +4 (total cost 86k), Levels +5 str, +1 str inherant (27.5k)

Abilities: Evasion, Slow Fall 30, Wholeness of Body, Flurry of Blows, +20 move
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike(M), Improved Grapple(M), Improved Trip(M), Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Greater Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Hold the Line, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Defensive Throw, Spring Attack, Elusive Target, Mage Slayer, Brutal Throw

Weapons and Armor: Holy Keen Greatsword +5 (128k), Mitheril Plate+5 of Heavy Fortification (100k), Ring of Protection +5 (50k), Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (50k), Cloak of Resistance +5 (25k) ...this is only 400-somek out of the 760 quota for an L20.

AC: 40 (10-1size+4na+5defl+5enhna+8armor+3dex+5enharmor+1dodge) + Heavy Fortification

Attacks: +35/+30/+25/+20 (16bab+12str+5sword+2gwf)
DMG: 3d6+2d6(holy) + 27 (+18str+5enh+4gwf)...v evil 32-57/hit, plus 2-1 or 4-1 on a charge power attack.

Grapple:+36 (16+12str+4size+4ImpGrapple)
Trip: +20 (+12str+4size+4ImpTrip)

Some notes. In hindsight:
1. Grappling Block means no two-handed weapon and a severe damage hit that probably is not worth it.
2. Being Dex/Wis based doesn't really get you a much better AC and ruins your offensive, grappling, and tripping power. Trip is strength and size verses str Or dex and size. Battlefield control, especially the kind you refer to, requires you to make these checks successfully, and a medium sized dex monk rarely will. In this case, although you have a good AC, strength is really your best defensive ability score.
3. Elusive target rocks. It lets you ignore power attack, and you can set one of the guys flanking you to automatically miss the first time and make that attack roll against the other flanker.
4. Brutal Throw lets you leverage your enormous str to have a decent ranged attack. It lets you use str for thrown weapon attacks instead of dex. Its probably a better choice than Deft Opportunist. You have a +35 to hit anyway.

BUILD 2: EVEN BETTER

Half-Orge Fighter 8/Monk 6/Barbarian 1/Hulking Hurler 3/ECL +2

Str 34 / Dex 16 / Con 20 / Int 10 / Wis 10 / Cha 6 (Items: Str +6, Con +6, Dex +4 (total cost 86k), Levels +5 str, +1 str inherant (27.5k)

Abilities: Evasion, Slow Fall 30, Wholeness of Body, Flurry of Blows, +30 move, Rage 1/day, Catch Weapon (Like deflect arrows but including all large and smaller weapons), Really Throw Anything, Overburdened Heave, Area Attack.
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike(M), Improved Grapple(M), Improved Trip(M), Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Hold the Line, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Dodge, Defensive Throw, Point Blank Shot, Elusive Target, Mage Slayer, Brutal Throw, Grappling Block, Weapon Focus (Rock) Snatch Arrows(HH)

Weapons and Armor: Holy Keen Greatsword +5 of insight (136k), Mitheril Plate+5 of Heavy Fortification (100k), Ring of Protection +5 (50k), Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (50k), Cloak of Resistance +5 (25k)

AC: 48 (10-1size+4na+5defl+5enhna+8armor+3dex+5enharmor+1dodge+1insight+7animshield+5) + Heavy Fortification + haste sometimes

Attacks: +35/+30/+25/+20 (16bab+12str+5sword+1luck+1gwf)
DMG: 3d6+2d6(holy) + 25 (+18str+5enh+2gwf)...v evil 30-55/hit, plus 2-1 or 4-1 on a charge power attack.

Grapple:+36 (16+12str+4size+4ImpGrapple)
Trip: +20 (+12str+4size+4ImpTrip)

Throw Attack (Equipment cost: 20k for portable hole, 98K (throwing, returning +5 plus materials cost for nearly two-ton object to throw (huge boulder around 3600 pounds, sized G throwing rock)

Attack: +35 (16bab+12str+5enh+1enh+1luck), dmg: 96d6+23. can attack a square with area attack AC10, and instead of AC, tohse inside get a ref save of attack bonus +10. Oh, and plus 1 dmg if withing 30 feet.

More Equipment: Glove of Storing (added into of dex, extra cost), Animated Shield +5, Boots of Speed, Luckstone,

Notes:
1. He got rid of Spring Attack and Mobility. Worth it for what HH gets. It weakens hold the line, but he still has defensive throw, and few things are going to want to let him have a full attack on them anyway and will probably still run in and out and provoke move and hold the line AOOs. It also strengthens Mage Slayer, since he needs to be threatening the mage for it to work. It strengthens his trip focus, of course, because he will want to keep hitting the down guys when they are down, rather than retreating.
2. He gains rage, 10 movement, great missile weapon protection, and of course, major attack power.
3. He does hundreds of damage per hit with his rock. Bang.

 

[Gaiden]

Looks like you've got this pretty well under control by yourself.

As long as I'm here, though, I'll nitpick the build a little:
Don't bother with quickdraw. Monks are proficient with shuriken, which are treated as ammo (meaning you can draw them as a free action).
Having Dex and Wis as your primary abilities will help with AC, but you're going to pay for it a lot. Your HP are going to suck (low con and four levels of monk), and you're going to have a hard time getting use out of that tripping stuff (opposed Str checks) against any melee types. Your damage will also be on the low side. But hey, you can't have everything.

Quickdraw is only there for the prereq to hurling charge.

I got lucky with stat rolls - 17 str. Also, keep in mind the feats: Deft Opportunist gives +4 to AoO, and Improved Trip gives +4 to the check. As a straight str check, this guy defintely has the advantage.

 

[Gaiden]

My favorite fighter build!

If you want battlefield control and tripping, you should invest in a large size race. I suggest the Half Ogre. Even updated to its ECL +2 its worth it, especially at high levels. You get your enhanced reach, large size gives you +4 to trips and grapples, your weapons do more damage, and you get +6 str for offense, and +4 con and +4 natural armor for some great defensive benefits.

I'd also suggest using a greatsword instead of having an extra bit of reach. This way you don't have gaps in your threatened areas and get to use a much better and more damaging weapon. Also, Hold the Line (CW) is excellent. Only prereq is Combat Reflexes, and it gives you an AOO whenever anyone charges you. Also, if you are going mobile tank, combine leap attack (CAd, prereq PA) with that greatsword for 4-1 power attack.

By the way, expertise sucks except at low levels. Offensive power quickly outstrips defensive power. It will come down to actions and attacks. The best defense, especially if you are a fighter, is to kill them first and/or to prevent them from attacking with spring attack, grappling block, defensive throw, and hold the line + improved trip. Note also that Expertise wrecks your attack bonus that you need for all of these important moves. Grappling block especially requires a high attack bonus if you have a good AC, because you have to be able to reliably hit well over your own AC for it to work.

Nonstandard races are not for me. If size category wound up being very important I think I would get some sort of enlarge person woundrous item or something. Is there anything that increases trip attacks opposed rolls out there? Anything that treats you as larger?

I already have unarmed attacks for the threat ranges (as I explained above).

I already have Hold the Line.

I could replace Leap Attack with Sidestep I suppose (I don't have CAd yet).

I have houseruled expertise to include superior expertise or whatever the name is - it has no cap.

The reason I went the trip route is because it doesn't rely on attack bonus. I could expertise for 8 lets say (see my houserule comment above), and would have no penalty to attack with the extra attack from improved trip on an AoO. In fact one option I was considering was to take defensive strike and just always go on the full defensive (when I didn't need to move). With defensive strike, deft opportunist and a tripped opponent I would get a +12 to every AoO. If I expertised for 8, had 5 ranks in tumble and went on the total defensive, had a +7 to AC from monk bonuses and dex, my AC would be 31 which I could have at 8th level. I'd still be at a net of +4 to hit more than my regular attack bonus! Moreover, if I had sidestep (I think I would need to wait a few levels on that), I could take a 5' step on the round I total defensed, and also when I get an AoO. Keep in mind, I don't just get AoO for my reach - I would get one every time they missed, which if they have iterive attacks is going to be quite often.

 

[Gaiden]

You've not giving people much to go on.
Is the build of a level 20 character? (I'm assuming so from what I've seen you post)
Are there any race restrictions?
What sources can be used?
If you will answer those 3 things along with the amount of starting money your character has then I'll have a go.

Cheers
B.A.W.

No restrictions - this is an NPC that I'd have in a game of mine. I always plan out all NPC's the full 20 levels so that I can bring them in at any point in the game. Moreover, I distinguish between two types of NPC's - those that are like PC's and those that aren't. This would be like a PC and so would have the same wealth as any other PC for his level. I prefer standard races, so would ignore anything involving half ogres and what not (like the stupid whale creature thing).

EDIT: no disrespect intended DM Matt. Those builds are certainly powerful and if used against my PC's would probably destroy them . But I am more interested in something a little more main stream. The point is not just to be mechanically powerful but integrated into society and for the reputation to precede the NPC. Also, I am more interested in versatility and expanded combat options than pure raw damage - hence the lack of weapon focus, weapon specialization, etc. It seems from your posts that what I should be focusing on mechanically is str and size. If I am limiting myself to medium size creatures (all the standard races are), size may be moot - I am not aware of anything that can increase a size category virtually or physically that is not a spell. For str, there is really just two options - a high score to begin with and rage (not including spells and items). So it really comes down to starting ability score. I suppose the character will have to invest in the +6 str item as soon as possible.