Help me kill Darmanicus & Friends!

[kigmatzomat]

I think Jhartaine makes a very good point in the way he is approaching the problem. The problem with giving the NPCs tons of really good equipment is that the players will have access to them when the fight is over. Apply sparingly.

Yup, if you want to use magic items, have them be expendables; wands, staves, dorjes, psi-crowns, etc. That way even the useful ones will be partially depleted.

First, Morrus needs to take the witch-queen out back and smack the &^$& out of her. Here, we have a near-immortal, genius-level intellect with nearly unlimited resources who has decided to let the group just waltz up into her inner sanctum for a little toe-to-toe. Put yourself in her place and try to see how you would realistically deal with this. I assume she is at least an 18th level manifester.

I second this. Therefore the Githzerai queen needs to be a fake, possibly a Simulacrum or a clone that's been MindSeeded to function like the queen without putting her at risk. It could even be a construct of some fashion. Heck, she could have a duplicated dedicated to dealing with the Slaad King to ensure continuity.

Net result, the Queen should be much weaker than she really is, which is not to say she's powerless. I'd give her about a quarter the Queen's PSPs and half the powers, hps, and BAB. Her AC and mental defenses should be quite high (since they are cheap) but possibly tied to the throne.

My gut says that the queen is doublecrossing everyone. Slaad are rarely capable of handling large, complicated plans but the Githzerai Queen should be. She's planning on nuking both the King and PCs at the cost of some of her guards and a facility that she may have originally constructed with this in mind.

That says to me the guards aren't as high level as they should be and that the real threat isn't the Slaad or even the Gith but the soon-to-be-imploding chamber.

 

[Navar]

He has already done the fake queen thing, if he does it again it will just be dumb.

 

[Morrus]

Occhronustinrist - that's pretty nasty! Maybe I should invite you round to run the session for the evening!

As a general note - illusions and invisibility, etc., really don't work well against this party. They usually see straight through them. The players know which spells they need to have running. Things like invisibility purge, true seeing, arcane sight and so forth are usually up and running. There are also a couple of rings of freedom of movement in the party, plus they can all fly. Some can ghostform, or have displacement, etc. Resistances and protections are all stacked up, so energy-based attacks rarely hurt them.

As Navar mentioned, the fake queen ploy has already been used. Can't do that again!

 

[Rystil Arden]

Occhronustinrist, your post is quite comprehensive, but unfortunately, many of your suggestions are misguided. I shall ignore the things that other people have already mentioned.

#1: The queen can only spend up to her level worth of PP on a single power unless she has Overchannel, and even then she only gets +3. Thus she can't spend "30 PP to make the Save DC 35."

Next: Kensai's good save is Will, so why are you throwing a Will Save at him? This is not to say that a Reflex save would work well either, as his class ability lets him sub in a Concentration check, but surprisingly, Fortitude will be his worst base save (although Kensai often boost their Con to raise Concentration checks, so you never know). In any event, if the Kensai is buffed, he will almost certainly make the Will save (Morrus is just lucky he was a Samurai/Kensai and not a Samurai/Paladin/Kensai) on Death Urge and completely negate it, and he might be immune to compulsions. Not a good choice.

Next: Since she can't spend nearly as many PP to raise the DCs of her Save-or-Dies(plus PCs are often immune to these), it should be clear by now that Save-or-Die isn't going to work very well. Greater Psionic Endowment is not as constructive a use of her focus as Metapsionic feats (allowing her to potentially cast 4 spells in a round where she has maxed out focus, and then 3 spells every round after [1 schism, 1 twinned, 1 quickened]).

Next: Dominating the archer? Magic circle protects against it, as do several other effects. That said, its probably the only thing you've suggested that the character will likely fail the save. Of course, the Schismed mind cannot concentrate on one of your own effects for you (but then, you could just have the Schismed mind manifest the Dominate in the first place, so not a big deal).

Next: Why would you decerebrate the paladin? He has good Fortitude, a Prestige Class with good Fortitude, and Divine Grace. If he's at all competent, there's no way he'll fail that save. And the cleric can just cast Greater Restoration anyways.

Next: Crisis of Life is a death effect, so diviner is probably immune. If not, he is likely to fail his save, but I doubt the party left this opening if they're as smart as Morrus says.

Next: She doesn't get Telekenetic Manoeuvre racially, as she is a Githzerai and not a Githyanki, but hey, she might still have it anyways.

Last: Why are all those Energy Bursts not Swarms of Crystals? They're probably resistant to whichever Energy type is chosen, and either way, they get a Reflex save. If you like broken Energy attacks though, try Energy Missile. The Reflex save on that power goes up by 1/PP instead of 1/2PP, so its DCs will likely be much higher compared to Energy Ball (plus it hits 5 people you target, which is more than the burst if they spread out).

 

[Morrus]

We actually have a "no death magic" rule in the game. It's an understanding between the players and me - if they don't use death magic, then I won't. We've always felt it is undramatic and not fun. Killing a PC outright at the beginning of the sessions means he gets to sit around watching TV while everyone else plays.

 

[Rystil Arden]

We actually have a "no death magic" rule in the game. It's an understanding between the players and me - if they don't use death magic, then I won't. We've always felt it is undramatic and not fun. Killing a PC outright at the beginning of the sessions means he gets to sit around watching TV while everyone else plays.

Makes sense to me. I have the same agreement with my PCs and the mostly-broken Sunder rules.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Oh and for some actual advice: Have you thought about what to do if the party uses the "Take him out of the fight without a Save" spells on

They're high enough level to have Maze and Forcecage, for instance. Maze will take even the King out of the fight until he rolls a 16 (expected time: 4 rounds), and Forcecage is worse, since he has no Dimension-Dooring abilities, it will take him out of the fight until someone Disintegrates it (and I'm not sure any of these guys can). To a lesser extent, Otto's Irresistible Dance can do this, but it is both less potent in duration and requires a touch attack (although it does let you thwack them while its active). This is something that level 25 liches would know about and prepare for. Any ideas guys?

 

[Occhronustinrist]

Occhronustinrist, your post is quite comprehensive, but unfortunately, many of your suggestions are misguided. I shall ignore the things that other people have already mentioned.

Rystil,

Yes, you and the others have raised very good points. I have grossly overlooked a few things in my post. I just picked up the Expanded Psionics Handbook last week and missed the limit on PSP vs Manifester Level.

Moreover, in the spirit of fairness, I also frown on the use of rules-gerrymandering in order to affect an "instant kill" on a PC. As a DM, you have access to anything. Given time and research, it is always possible to come up with something that kills with no save. I agree that we should move away from those tactics.

The problem remains that the Queen has trapped herself in a situation where she is forced into a toe-to-toe showdown with the party. She is literally gambling with her life. This appears to me an unreasonable undertaking in that, she does not appear to be fighting the party on her own terms.

#1: The queen can only spend up to her level worth of PP on a single power unless she has Overchannel, and even then she only gets +3. Thus she can't spend "30 PP to make the Save DC 35."

True. (See Above) However, we still need to know what the Manifester Level/StatBlock of the Psion actually is. I just noted one poster listing her as 25th Level. I had guessed at 18th. That would allow the expenditure of quite a few extra points (16 or so on average) without resorting to the use of Overchannel.

Example: Assuming Caster Level 25; Max Intelligence Mod = +6 [22 Int @ (-2 Racial)(+6 level)(18 Base)]; and a Feat Mod of +2

Dominate would therefore be DC 22 (Base10+6+2+4=22)
Dominate costs 7 Pts, allowing for +4 to the DC for a final total of 26 = not too shabby.

The archer is looking at a total Will save around 10, granting about a 20% chance of saving.

Next: Kensai's good save is Will, so why are you throwing a Will Save at him?

True, in that case - Decerebate and cut off his Brain Stem. DC 25?

Next: Since she can't spend nearly as many PP to raise the DCs of her Save-or-Dies(plus PCs are often immune to these), it should be clear by now that Save-or-Die isn't going to work very well. Greater Psionic Endowment is not as constructive a use of her focus as Metapsionic feats (allowing her to potentially cast 4 spells in a round where she has maxed out focus, and then 3 spells every round after [1 schism, 1 twinned, 1 quickened]).

Yes, these are probably better options. What options do we have for the use of Prayer, Recitation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Unhallow, or other reciprocal buff spells to prepare the Queen's Folks? Stylisically, I don't think clerical support is right for this encounter.

Next: Dominating the archer? Magic circle protects against it, as do several other effects. That said, its probably the only thing you've suggested that the character will likely fail the save. Of course, the Schismed mind cannot concentrate on one of your own effects for you (but then, you could just have the Schismed mind manifest the Dominate in the first place, so not a big deal).

Yes, the schismed mind should both manifest and maintain the dominate. (Which would consequentially lower the application of additional PPts...sigh)

Next: Why would you decerebrate the paladin? He has good Fortitude, a Prestige Class with good Fortitude, and Divine Grace. If he's at all competent, there's no way he'll fail that save. And the cleric can just cast Greater Restoration anyways.

As above, let's move away from instant-kills...

Next: Crisis of Life is a death effect, so diviner is probably immune. If not, he is likely to fail his save, but I doubt the party left this opening if they're as smart as Morrus says.

-Yes, this should be scrapped (Even though a heart attack would be fun).

Next: She doesn't get Telekenetic Manoeuvre racially, as she is a Githzerai and not a Githyanki, but hey, she might still have it anyways.

-I meant it as a regular power selection. I do think that this is a very good tactic against spellcasters and should be kept.

Last: Why are all those Energy Bursts not Swarms of Crystals? They're probably resistant to whichever Energy type is chosen, and either way, they get a Reflex save. If you like broken Energy attacks though, try Energy Missile. The Reflex save on that power goes up by 1/PP instead of 1/2PP, so its DCs will likely be much higher compared to Energy Ball (plus it hits 5 people you target, which is more than the burst if they spread out).

-Good Point. This will also depend on the size of the room. You can only spread out so much. The Energy burst should select Sonic as the medium. I have yet to see a group protected against this. This will be based on Morris's group history. There is also no reason that the Queen (or her minion) was not scrying on the combat with her sister to watch the group's patterns. Thus, she should be able to anticipate what protections are in effect.

Back to tactics.

-In response to the player's ability to counter the illusions and invisibility: Remember that every detection spell cast results in an offensive spell not being cast. Just because it can be countered does not invalidate the tactic. Use these kinds of obstacles to delay the party's ability to take the offensive. The defensive-minded player is not killing your NPCs.

-This is a group of Psionic Creatures. They are aware of their vulnerability to magic and should prepare for it. Having an item charged with Dispel Magic would be ideal. There should be something that will attack that, like a magic-eating monster (Nishruu -FRealms??)

 

[Navar]

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=121846
There is the thread with a lot of the lich queen stuff. (this was the handmaiden, but he may as well use the same stats (as the party didn't see any of what she could do last time))

 

[Rystil Arden]

Occ: Well, I obviously can't speak for Morrus's group, but they sound *a lot* like my group. My group always defends against Sonic because very few monsters defend against it, so their spellcasters prefer it, and they figure others will too. However, you should note that the sonic Energy attacks do -1 damage per die. Thus, Swarm of Crystals is completely preferrable to Sonic Energy Ball (same damage, but no Save). I agree that we should move away from instakills; you were the one to originally suggest them, and I just figure that if you use an instakill, it should at least be the correct one.

As to your clerical question: The main weakness of the Queen's team is that they have not a single divine or arcane caster. Thus they cannot heal, and they cannot use useful antimagic effects. That's why I'm worried about Forcecage, etc.
If they had a cleric to cleric-buff and a wizard to wizard-buff, and of course the lich-queen to psion-buff, and they had done this beforehand, there's no question that the PCs would be dead. The only chance the PCs have going for them is this vulnerability of their enemies, but of course, we need to shore this up to keep if from being too exploitable.