Help me utilise Dominated

[Infiniti2000]

I'm not sure a dominated character can use additional free-action powers, such as the warden's marking power. Actually, I'm pretty sure they can't.

I agree they can't, but in the example I cited, it's part of the at-will, not a separate power. It's a condition of the power itself. So, if the Warden PC is dominated and uses that at-will and hits an ally, that ally is indeed marked. If the ally goes before he warden, then he'll need to either delay or suck up the -2 on attacks rolls...unless, of course, he attacks the warden.

 

[Unwise]

I personally like to have dominated PCs run around the battlefield, drawing AOOs, and then falling prone (a free action) at the feet of an enemy at the end of the run.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

I do this a great deal too, but I am not sure you can do that RAW. My understanding is that they cannot take free actions. That said, a command to say "go belly flop over there" would be a move action though, so I think that should be fine, or "go put your forehead on the doormat" should be one action though.

I chose to allow people to take free actions, as my PCs came up with great ideas that really enhanced play. They would dominate the bad guys right hand man, and make him charge the bad guy. That is pretty effective, but using a free action to say "Muhahaha, you fool, finally my hour is at hand, you will fall and I will be the new master!" completely changes the combat.

Now the bad guy is likely to attack his own friend new turn. With some clever RPing, my players made it clear to the 2nd in command that his only hope to avoid his boss's vengeance was to swap sides for real.

This worked well for me, until my players decided to do the following:Make the bad guy drop both his weapons (free), then run past them all (OAs with CA, say hello to Mr Thief) and bellyflop at the Slayers feet (hello headsman's chop). I think a bellyflop could reasonably be considered one action rather than a move+free. The thing is though, allowing them to make the guy drop his weapons completely removes him from combat.

 

[OnlineDM]

For what it's worth, the rules address the questions of free actions for dominated creatures as well as dropping prone.

First, dropping prone is a minor action in Fourth Edition, not a free action. Dropping an OBJECT is a free action, yes, but a belly flop is a minor.

Second, the rules for the dominated condition are very specific about the fact that the dominator chooses a single action for the dominated character to take, which can be a standard, move, minor or free action. So, if you have them take a free action to drop their weapon, that's all they do under the domination for that turn (by RAW anyway).

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

You guys should play in our campaigns. The DM says when his creatures dominate a player, they get a full run of all actions and effects.

One time our barbarian got dominated, moved to our paladin, popped a daily power, critted, then got a second attack off the crit. Dropped the paladin in one turn.

DM thought it was great...

When I pointed out the actual rules about domination to him, I was told he was DM and that pretty much was that...

 

[Ferghis]

I agree they can't, but in the example I cited, it's part of the at-will, not a separate power. It's a condition of the power itself. So, if the Warden PC is dominated and uses that at-will and hits an ally, that ally is indeed marked. If the ally goes before he warden, then he'll need to either delay or suck up the -2 on attacks rolls...unless, of course, he attacks the warden.

I was making a false assumption because I did not know the power you were referring to. Since it marks as part of the power's effect, you're correct. I can't say it's a common power, but I had picked a similar odd at will for my fighter. I wonder if OnlineDM has picked up on what you're saying.

Of course, a DM, online or not, could reasonably rule that a mark has no effect on an ally, if this were to become a serious problem.

 

[OnlineDM]

I was making a false assumption because I did not know the power you were referring to. Since it marks as part of the power's effect, you're correct. I can't say it's a common power, but I had picked a similar odd at will for my fighter. I wonder if OnlineDM has picked up on what you're saying.

Of course, a DM, online or not, could reasonably rule that a mark has no effect on an ally, if this were to become a serious problem.

I got it. I'm not that worried about it.

Yes, my house rule on dominated can be worse for PCs that might have a way to save against the effect before their turn, such as a warden or another PC with a free beginning of turn save (such as with Superior Will). I'm okay with that.

I prefer for the domination to do SOMETHING, and I like that my modification still lets the PC act for themselves on their own turn, even if they don't get a save before their turn comes up.

Still, it's just one guy's house rule. Feel free to ignore it!

 

[Infiniti2000]

FWIW, I actually like it. I do think dominated needs to be improved a little, but also it needs very careful management by the DM. I would not give the power to just any monster and it would be very restrictive in the hands of the players. I also think that maybe some additional ...flavor?...could help the use of the power, something that makes the affected PC more interested. Say there's a choice of a couple of at-wills. One is clearly in the favor of the PC, something like attack + heal an ally. Obviously, the bad guy doesn't want that. The bad guy, however, gets to make the PC attack an ally, but perhaps some roll, say a wisdom/charisma check vs. bad guy Will defense, let's the player choose the at-will attack power. With this kind of response, now you can make dominate a little stronger because the player has a chance to reduce the effectiveness and is engaged during his turn more than just a ho hum basic attack roll. This roll would signify the continuous struggle vs the dominate moreso than just the save.

 

[JohnnyO]

You guys should play in our campaigns. The DM says when his creatures dominate a player, they get a full run of all actions and effects.

One time our barbarian got dominated, moved to our paladin, popped a daily power, critted, then got a second attack off the crit. Dropped the paladin in one turn.

DM thought it was great...

When I pointed out the actual rules about domination to him, I was told he was DM and that pretty much was that...

That's fine, until your players get a little higher level and gain the power for themselves. At that point, he'll be more likely to listen to reason.

 

[Ryujin]

That's fine, until your players get a little higher level and gain the power for themselves. At that point, he'll be more likely to listen to reason.

That's exactly how things went with the charging rules; while there was a PC who was doing it, it was rather difficult to get a good charge in. When there were no charging PCs, the opponents could meet conditions easily.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

That's fine, until your players get a little higher level and gain the power for themselves. At that point, he'll be more likely to listen to reason.

Oh no - our players were only allowed to use dominate according to the actual rules...