silentspace
First Post
Allow the druid to find and train some fighting animals. Or buy some.
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Help! PC party makeup creates DM quandary!
- Thread starter zyzzyr
- Start date
Druids aren't limited to just animal cohrots so some trained attack animals may be useful as long as the druid treats them well.
Think of an urban/rural adventure. Put them in a city with some parks were something odd is going on. the party needs both characters to find out. Alos graveyards near cities, underground lairs, sewers etc could serve as environments both can function in. near city harbors with water and wharfs. something for both to do. Don't think exclusive but inclusive.
Also as far as what to change in the campaign. yeah its your campaign but its also thiers. Change it enough for them to be challenged and for you to have fun with it. Things happen. No reason to scrae newbies off by being inflexible.
if we knew more about why this is a combat intensive campaign may help in the advice department.
later
Think of an urban/rural adventure. Put them in a city with some parks were something odd is going on. the party needs both characters to find out. Alos graveyards near cities, underground lairs, sewers etc could serve as environments both can function in. near city harbors with water and wharfs. something for both to do. Don't think exclusive but inclusive.
Also as far as what to change in the campaign. yeah its your campaign but its also thiers. Change it enough for them to be challenged and for you to have fun with it. Things happen. No reason to scrae newbies off by being inflexible.
if we knew more about why this is a combat intensive campaign may help in the advice department.
later
I think sometimes people get into the mindset if the party dies its the dm's fault...which is not necessarily true. If needbe, have your party hire some beef to keep them safe. Playing the game is learning your weaknesses and learning to cope with that... not forcing your dm to change his game because your party can't hack it anymore.
PC WIZARd to DM: Man, we all died. Dude, there was no way we could have handled that.
DM to wizard: Your absoultely right, so tell me Mr. 21 int, why'd you go in headfirst?
PC WIZARd to DM: Man, we all died. Dude, there was no way we could have handled that.
DM to wizard: Your absoultely right, so tell me Mr. 21 int, why'd you go in headfirst?
Hi all,
Thanks for the responses.
Unfortunately, some of these ideas do not fit the criteria I've set out. I don't want to introduce any new NPCs since I don't want to run more than one. Since they're newbies, this would include cohorts (it's rules-heavy enough to run one character, running two is much more difficult). Others will just guarantee that people will stop playing because the "GM is being a jerk". They're still newbie enough that I can't just cut them loose and see what happens.
The reason that it began as a combat intensive campaign is because half of the people in the group (the two that have since left) wanted a combat intensive campaign. Unfortunately the story is fairly well set, and the area is in the midst of a war. Enough of the story has been exposed as well so I can't just backtrack on a few things or change the story on a dime. However, it's easy enough to give them non-combat oriented quests instead -- but my question was more specific: i.e. with a druid, two sorcerers, and a rogue, what sort of adventures can people come up with?
I've finally come up with an idea for the next adventure -- to show them that they can still function and have fun without some toe to toe fighters (don't forget, they've only seen combat intensive, so as newbies they really don't know much else!). And I think I'm going to be a little easier-going out of game to plan out spells to use, etc.
Anyhow, the next adventure I have involves a hidden town of gnomes that has been long since abandoned, and the PCs are sent in to find out why it's abandoned. Lots of traps, lots of nature stuff, lots of magic, and very little straight up fighting. Should work out well.
If anyone else has ideas, I'd love to hear them!
zyzzyr
Thanks for the responses.
Unfortunately, some of these ideas do not fit the criteria I've set out. I don't want to introduce any new NPCs since I don't want to run more than one. Since they're newbies, this would include cohorts (it's rules-heavy enough to run one character, running two is much more difficult). Others will just guarantee that people will stop playing because the "GM is being a jerk". They're still newbie enough that I can't just cut them loose and see what happens.
The reason that it began as a combat intensive campaign is because half of the people in the group (the two that have since left) wanted a combat intensive campaign. Unfortunately the story is fairly well set, and the area is in the midst of a war. Enough of the story has been exposed as well so I can't just backtrack on a few things or change the story on a dime. However, it's easy enough to give them non-combat oriented quests instead -- but my question was more specific: i.e. with a druid, two sorcerers, and a rogue, what sort of adventures can people come up with?
I've finally come up with an idea for the next adventure -- to show them that they can still function and have fun without some toe to toe fighters (don't forget, they've only seen combat intensive, so as newbies they really don't know much else!). And I think I'm going to be a little easier-going out of game to plan out spells to use, etc.
Anyhow, the next adventure I have involves a hidden town of gnomes that has been long since abandoned, and the PCs are sent in to find out why it's abandoned. Lots of traps, lots of nature stuff, lots of magic, and very little straight up fighting. Should work out well.
If anyone else has ideas, I'd love to hear them!
zyzzyr
Liminal Syzygy
Community Supporter
Perhaps it's time for a new campaign and new characters. It seems you are boxing yourself in with your self imposed constraints, so that may be the best option at this point.
EternalNewbie
Explorer
Well, I may not be able to offer any concrete suggestions, but I will offer some encouragement. I'm currently playing in a campaign where the party is composed of a wizard (played by myself), a druid and a sorceress. So far, it's been a blast, and I don't think our DM has really pulled any punches. We did rely a fair bit on the druid's animal companion which, until about 4th level or so, had more hps and a better AC then anybody else in the party, but it (being a snake) obviously wasn't as useful as having a full fledged fighter.
Given the makeup of the group, I expect that they'll probably annihilate the first encounter you throw at them, but struggle through the next, unless they have time to rest. In our group, we're pretty careful about making sure we can retreat, and have made extensive use of spells like rope trick to get out of tough situations and give us some breathing room. We do rely on NPC's from time to time, but have done some pretty brutal dungeon crawls without a fighter.
Summoning creatures works quite well too, but probably won't be effective until around 5th level or so, when the creatures actually stay around long enough to let you keep summoning more and more and overwhelm your opponents. In the last game we played, I used invisibility to get off 5 summon monsters (2 3rd's, 1 2nd, 2 1st's) and completely turned the tide of a battle.
Anyhow, I hope this helps, and I'll finish off with a shameless plug for my story hour, which may give you some idea of how a group like that can work.
Given the makeup of the group, I expect that they'll probably annihilate the first encounter you throw at them, but struggle through the next, unless they have time to rest. In our group, we're pretty careful about making sure we can retreat, and have made extensive use of spells like rope trick to get out of tough situations and give us some breathing room. We do rely on NPC's from time to time, but have done some pretty brutal dungeon crawls without a fighter.
Summoning creatures works quite well too, but probably won't be effective until around 5th level or so, when the creatures actually stay around long enough to let you keep summoning more and more and overwhelm your opponents. In the last game we played, I used invisibility to get off 5 summon monsters (2 3rd's, 1 2nd, 2 1st's) and completely turned the tide of a battle.
Anyhow, I hope this helps, and I'll finish off with a shameless plug for my story hour, which may give you some idea of how a group like that can work.
Altamont Ravenard
Explorer
They probably know they have to be careful. They probably have some capacity to sneak about. If they have to fight, they'll have to develop tactics to optimize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. I don't know what the sorcerers' spell selections are, but as someone pointed out, maybe let them trade some spells every level instead. Make sure their lists are diversified and complementary. Study with the druid his spell list to make sure he knows the most important spells. If you haven't done something similar, prepare a few index cards with stats for the animals that he summons.
The rogue and druid can work well together, especially if the druid can summon animals to help the rogue get into flanking position.
Don't tell them what to do, but make sure they remember to use their abilities. Sometimes the player forgets what the character should know.
If you want to stay combat heavy, make sure the players scout ahead and use the terrain to their advantage. Or start the combat from further away, and forget to give the enemies some ranged weapons
You'll probably have to be a little more careful, but I wouldn't change the campaign on the account that the party isn't what it used to be.
AR
The rogue and druid can work well together, especially if the druid can summon animals to help the rogue get into flanking position.
Don't tell them what to do, but make sure they remember to use their abilities. Sometimes the player forgets what the character should know.
If you want to stay combat heavy, make sure the players scout ahead and use the terrain to their advantage. Or start the combat from further away, and forget to give the enemies some ranged weapons
You'll probably have to be a little more careful, but I wouldn't change the campaign on the account that the party isn't what it used to be.
AR
Herremann the Wise
First Post
Just be conscious of what can really hurt them and what will just test them out.
Your hidden gnomish village sounds interesting. However, don't coddle them too much. If a character or two bites the big bullet, then it could possibly make them aware of what they're party is missing.
Would it be that difficult to let them hire a mercenary fighter? Just one character like this could re-establish the "natural" balance in the game. Perhaps the Cleric might have a reason to leave the party?
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
PS: What level are the characters?
Your hidden gnomish village sounds interesting. However, don't coddle them too much. If a character or two bites the big bullet, then it could possibly make them aware of what they're party is missing.
Would it be that difficult to let them hire a mercenary fighter? Just one character like this could re-establish the "natural" balance in the game. Perhaps the Cleric might have a reason to leave the party?
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
PS: What level are the characters?
zyzzyr said:
Well they need an NPC Fighter type if you're to run most regular D&D scenarios. Either that or play 3.0 where the buffed NPC cleric will fight better than a Fighter anyway...
Since they have a Druid, frankly they need a meat shield more than they need another healer, so the cleric-as-healer is only vital if you're throwing lots of undead at them. With good armour & spell selection the NPC Cleric can hopefully act as the meat shield in most circumstances, but is likely to die sooner or later.
military scouts
I'm not sure what level they are at but it sounds like they could be pretty sneaky. In a war campaign they could easily be sent on scouting missions; finding a certain captive, scouting invading army numbers, checking out alternate routes for good armies, maybe even being sent on a diplomatic mission to seek aid from a reclusive wizard or colony of elves or what not.
Also, if they are newbies they may not realize what a mean fighter a mage armored/barkskinned/ greater magic fanged, etc druid can be in bear form. Maybe an NPC war wizard can emphasize that to them.
Without a big clunky fighter these guys are better suited to infiltration and information gathering than most and can still do some fighting. Run with that. Maybe they get missions where they mostly avoid combat, if they do fight they need to kill whoever it is before an alarm is raised and if that doesn't work they need to run like heck; a little different than go in and kill everyone and take their stuff. Of course, more of their magic items/experience would come from their superiors and story bonuses since they wouldn't be killing as many things.
Wildshaping and things like a sorceror who can cast multiple "invisibility" spells can make for a sneaky group.
I'm not sure what level they are at but it sounds like they could be pretty sneaky. In a war campaign they could easily be sent on scouting missions; finding a certain captive, scouting invading army numbers, checking out alternate routes for good armies, maybe even being sent on a diplomatic mission to seek aid from a reclusive wizard or colony of elves or what not.
Also, if they are newbies they may not realize what a mean fighter a mage armored/barkskinned/ greater magic fanged, etc druid can be in bear form. Maybe an NPC war wizard can emphasize that to them.
Without a big clunky fighter these guys are better suited to infiltration and information gathering than most and can still do some fighting. Run with that. Maybe they get missions where they mostly avoid combat, if they do fight they need to kill whoever it is before an alarm is raised and if that doesn't work they need to run like heck; a little different than go in and kill everyone and take their stuff. Of course, more of their magic items/experience would come from their superiors and story bonuses since they wouldn't be killing as many things.
Wildshaping and things like a sorceror who can cast multiple "invisibility" spells can make for a sneaky group.
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