Help! PC party makeup creates DM quandary!

[Silverglass]

One option as they are probably low level is allow them to hire some mooks, its something that the bad guys do so I don't see why the PC's can't. Allow whichever player wants to do so to hire a 1st or 2nd level Warrior (to a maximum of 1 per Player) and get the players to run them.

As Warriors their abilities will be pretty simple to run, your players will get a good handle on cmbat and all you need to adjudicate is any situations where the NPCs would be acting strangely or against their alignment or contract of employement (e.g. giving away rewards, needlessly suicidal sacrifices etc).

 

[Ukyo the undead]

Hi all,

I've been recently DMing a game that started off with 4 players: a wizard, a druid, a barbarian, and two fighters.

That´s the strangest sum I have ever seen. Or maybe the "two fighters" is in fact a ettin.

 

[zyzzyr]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

First off, Ukyo is right, that is an odd sum: I don't know how "two fighters" got in there, it should only be one.

To answer some of the questions:

level 7 druid, level 7 sorcerer, level 6 sorcerer, level 6 rogue. level 7 NPC cleric.

Unfortunately the cleric can't come out for various reasons, including that he is pretty important to the plot.

I'm playing a mix of 3e and 3.5 e (who isn't?), and so I've taken the 3.5e druid animal companion in order to make it more balanced.

I don't want to add any NPCs at all, of any kind. No cohorts, no followers, no animals (other than animal companions). It's very difficult for newbies to grasp all of their character's abilities with the rules-heavy 3e or 3.5e without complicating it with another character. And 1st or 2nd level warriors, I would guess, would not last very long at all.

However, I might consider running (myself) an NPC fighter or warrior. I tried this before, though, and got rid of him because I found it bogged down the game -- too much time in the GM's hands when you've got 6 giant spiders to run! However, that was before the most recent player departure (the dwarven fighter) and so maybe a fighter will come back.

It's a more story-based group (now that the other two are gone), and so I am looking to change the tone of the campaign as well, I suppose -- more story, more NPC interaction, less NPC hacktion.

There are some excellent ideas given -- thanks! I really like the idea of having a transient NPC suggest strategies to them -- it will stimulate them much more than me telling them out of game.

I've written down the strategies to propose for the group.

Are there any other suggested combat strategies for this odd combination? Summoning help, buff spells ... anything else?

Also, the adventure ideas really help! I can whip up some scenarios that are more strategy- or diplomacy- focused -- elite strike teams too!

zyzzyr

 

[JoeBlank]

The Whispering Woodwind is a nice adventure with a mix of urban interaction and wilderness travel. You might need to ratchet it up a little, but there are suggestions in the adventure for adjusting to differing types of parties and campaigns.

http://www.enworld.org/reviews/index.php?sub=yes&where=currentprod&which=CMGTWW

 

[Epametheus]

L7? Your druid is a frontliner, and he'll be a damn good one if he does it right.

I've actually DM'd a party that was composed entirely of spellcasters; they used summons and guerilla tactics to smash forces that would have slaughtered them in straight-up combat.

Just let them do their thing; as long as you don't throw a beholder at them, they'll be fine. If they don't know what they're doing and you wind up killing a couple, then you'll probably be seeing some fighters when they roll up new characters.

 

[Tessarael]

level 7 druid, level 7 sorcerer, level 6 sorcerer, level 6 rogue. level 7 NPC cleric.

I'm been in a long running Mystara campaign where the core party is: Illusionist/Rogue/Arcane Trickster, Sorcerer/Spellsword/Eldritch Knight, and an Enchanter. At various times there are other more melee combat characters about, but these guys are the core.

How do they handle combat?

The Enchanter usually casts plenty of summoning spells, with charms and holds to stop the enemies in their tracks.

The Arcane Trickster does plenty of buffs, and moves around to use his sneak attack. Effectively, he is a secondary melee guy who can do high damage.

The Sorcerer either blasts, or buffs and then wades into combat.

How does this relate to your group?

The Druid should be an okay tank when buffed and in wild shape. He should take the Natural Spell feat. The Druid is also good at summoning, and should be able to provide a buffer zone.

The Sorcerers will be stand back and blast guys. They need a buffer zone. They should have some summoning spells, they can help provide the buffer zone. Keep in mind that you can generate a buffer zone by spells like Fly, Wall of Stone, etc. Anything that creates a gap between you and enemy melee guys.

The Rogue should be good as a secondary combatant. He just needs to make sure he has good AC. For example, I have a Rogue who periodically helps out in the Mystara campaign. My AC is from: Darkwood Heavy Shield (+2 AC), Mithril Shirt (+4 AC), Ring of Protection, Dodge feat, Combat Expertise feat, and high Dex. It works well - I have the highest AC in the party before buffs, and I can toe-to-toe at least for a bit with the big melee guys. Longer if I have buffs like Barkskin (+4 natural armor AC, yay!), and get some healing when those HP are dwindling.

The Cleric also makes a good secondary combatant. Good armor and shield, so decent AC, and pretty good BAB. He can help provide a buffer when necessary. The Cleric is also useful for healing others in the buffer zone (e.g. summoned creatures, the Druid, and the Rogue), and for buffing those creatures. The Cleric can also summon creatures.

Spellcasting parties are going to be worst off when they can't buff. e.g. Random encounters, especially after their buffs have run out. A reasonable solution is to rest a bit more often. For encounters where they are prepared, they can be quite a bit stronger than a more melee fight oriented party.

Just my thoughts ...

 

[Tessarael]

level 7 druid, level 7 sorcerer, level 6 sorcerer, level 6 rogue. level 7 NPC cleric.

I'm been in a long running Mystara campaign where the core party is: Illusionist/Rogue/Arcane Trickster, Sorcerer/Spellsword/Eldritch Knight, and an Enchanter. At various times there are other more melee combat characters about, but these guys are the core.

How do they handle combat?

The Enchanter usually casts plenty of summoning spells, with charms and holds to stop the enemies in their tracks.

The Arcane Trickster does plenty of buffs, and moves around to use his sneak attack. Effectively, he is a secondary melee guy who can do high damage.

The Sorcerer either blasts, or buffs and then wades into combat.

How does this relate to your group?

The Druid should be an okay tank when buffed and in wild shape. He should take the Natural Spell feat. The Druid is also good at summoning, and should be able to provide a buffer zone.

The Sorcerers will be stand back and blast guys. They need a buffer zone. They should have some summoning spells, they can help provide the buffer zone. Keep in mind that you can generate a buffer zone by spells like Fly, Wall of Stone, etc. Anything that creates a gap between you and enemy melee guys.

The Rogue should be good as a secondary combatant. He just needs to make sure he has good AC. For example, I have a Rogue who periodically helps out in the Mystara campaign. My AC is from: Darkwood Heavy Shield (+2 AC), Mithril Shirt (+4 AC), Ring of Protection, Dodge feat, Combat Expertise feat, and high Dex. It works well - I have the highest AC in the party before buffs, and I can toe-to-toe at least for a bit with the big melee guys. Longer if I have buffs like Barkskin (+4 natural armor AC, yay!), and get some healing when those HP are dwindling.

The Cleric also makes a good secondary combatant. Good armor and shield, so decent AC, and pretty good BAB. He can help provide a buffer when necessary. The Cleric is also useful for healing others in the buffer zone (e.g. summoned creatures, the Druid, and the Rogue), and for buffing those creatures. The Cleric can also summon creatures.

Spellcasting parties are going to be worst off when they can't buff. e.g. Random encounters, especially after their buffs have run out. A reasonable solution is to rest a bit more often. For encounters where they are prepared, they can be quite a bit stronger than a more melee fight oriented party.

Just my thoughts ...

 

[zyzzyr]

Hi all,

Thanks -- a lot of these things really help!

One of the sorcerers focuses only on Transmutation spells, so she's a good "buff" sorcerer.

I'll relay along some of these buffer zone ideas, as well as guerilla tactics, summoning, and flanking.

I have index cards for the animals, that should help too.

Well, thanks for reassuring me that they can still take on fairly heavy combats! Will see how this all pans out.

zyzzyr

 

[Darklone]

The rogue could multiclass into fighter... some of the most effective fighter builds I've seen out there have been ftr/rogs.

Tell your players to check out Rels Faded Glory SH here on the boards, that might give them good ideas how a mainly sneaky group (in the beginning) can get ahead without running into trouble all the time.. ok they did, but they WERE sneaky.

 

[Voadam]

Rogues and druids can make good combatants, their weakness is generally AC, hit points and the low 3/4 BAB (and for rogues uncrittable creatures). They just aren't equal combatants to fighters of their levels. Give them heavy combat targeted a few CRs lower (lots of hobgoblins, owlbears or whatnot) and they will be effective warriors.

The druid can either wildshape into a bear to front line fight or summon creatures to do so.

The rogue can generally tumble and flank with the druid or a summoned creature for the sneak attacks.

The two sorcerers are then the second rank artillery or support casters.

I'd agree with not introducing more NPC henchman figures than necessary so the newbies are comfortable roleplaying and visualizing the situation without too many distractions.

A place with traps that has been abandoned and reclaimed by nature and wild beasts is a great place for both the rogue and druid to shine.

Have fun and let them rip.