[Help Plz] Do grapple checks include penalties/bonuses from defenseive fighting, etc?

[Legildur]

Quick response!!

Yeah, on a monk.

I just need to have these sort of issues sorted before I let lose on my unsuspecting DM (and I want to do things by the rules, not just see what I can get away with).

The Weapon Focus feat says that you can choose 'unarmed strike' or 'grapple' to apply this feat to, which initially made me think that you could NOT use unarmed strike enhancements for the grapple check (but that you could for damage).

 

[Camarath]

I think I was wrong. Grapple checks do seem to be a special kind of attack roll. I do not think that all of the abilities that require the use of attacks should be allowed to use grapple checks instead of normal attacks. But I do think that penalties to your attacks should apply to grapple checks as well. Sorry for any confusion I caused.

 

[Legildur]

Don't apologise about the confusion!!!

Interesting questions and healthy debate increase our knowledge of the game.

 

[Camarath]

Interesting questions and healthy debate increase our knowledge of the game.

That is what I always believed.

 

[Camarath]

The way I view the issue now is that a grapple check counts as an attack roll so conditions that would modify attack rolls also modify grapple checks. But I don’t not think that a grapple check count as actual attack so things that would be triggered by an attack are not triggered by a grapple check. I know this is a bit convoluted and presumes to extrapolate farther than the rules seem to go. But does anyone have any thoughts on viewing Grapple Checks like this?

 

[reapersaurus]

AFAIK, it's fairly common to have Power Attack affect Grapple damage.

 

[Legildur]

Okay, I think we agree that actions like using Expertise, Power Attack etc affect your grapple check (and damage in some cases). And I think I agree that True Strike, Bless, Inspire Courage etc also affect it.

But I don't think enhancements to unarmed strike do. Only because of the reference in the Weapon Focus feat to unarmed strike OR grapple. They certainly help with the touch attack to initiate, but I don't believe that they affect the susbequent grapple check (except for damage if successful).

As an analogy, you don't count your weapon enhancement when tripping with a weapon (although you do for the touch attack once again) and the trip mechanic also has a 'special' attack calculation.

But, as a player of a grapple focused monk, I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise.

 

[BoneMan]

Since the damage applied in a grapple can be done from a weapon/natural weapon; and also the damage can be done with a Monk’s unarmed strike, ALL of which can be Enhanced.

So, I am going to go out on a limb and say that since Enhancement modifiers can be used on natural weapons, the Enhancement modifier can be used in Grapple Attacks / Grapple Checks, and for causing damage in a grapple, and constrictions.