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Help with a Church design...
- Thread starter Silvanos
- Start date
Silvanos said:
Yes, but the domains she grants don't seem to match this. Strength, war and protection fall wel into the overall concept you have laid out but destruction tends to make one think that the area of concern is mor along war for war's sake and not war for a cause or war to preserve balance, if you know what I mean.
ErichDragon
First Post
Some thoughts stolen directly from Bernard Cornwell's treatment of Mithraists in his excellent Arthurian Trilogy.
The followers of Mithras, a real world war/bull god that has close ties with the 'mystery religions' of ancient Rome and early Christianity, held themselves aloof from the politics of kings and nations. They were a semi-secret society that had different levels of initiation. The worshippers of Mithras often fought on opposite sides of the same conflict, holding truce only on the holy days of their god. There was no organized church to the god, just secret traditions and ceremonies.
No battles could be fought on the holy days of Mithras, because all of the initiates, which was a large number of the soldiers, would retreat to sacred caves and such to celebrate. The rituals of initiation included baptism in the blood of a bull and various other ritual type things.
I have used this type of War God in several campaigns to good effect. It allows for good RP between the players and their enemies were combat is not a viable solution. It also allows for adventure hooks as the character attempts to win their way into ever higher circles of initiation. I had these levels of initiation be independant of level or character class but YMMV.
The followers of Mithras, a real world war/bull god that has close ties with the 'mystery religions' of ancient Rome and early Christianity, held themselves aloof from the politics of kings and nations. They were a semi-secret society that had different levels of initiation. The worshippers of Mithras often fought on opposite sides of the same conflict, holding truce only on the holy days of their god. There was no organized church to the god, just secret traditions and ceremonies.
No battles could be fought on the holy days of Mithras, because all of the initiates, which was a large number of the soldiers, would retreat to sacred caves and such to celebrate. The rituals of initiation included baptism in the blood of a bull and various other ritual type things.
I have used this type of War God in several campaigns to good effect. It allows for good RP between the players and their enemies were combat is not a viable solution. It also allows for adventure hooks as the character attempts to win their way into ever higher circles of initiation. I had these levels of initiation be independant of level or character class but YMMV.
Kilmore
First Post
The way I see it, the deity accepts sacrifice in the form of martial training and a nation's material preparation for warfare. I'm sure most nations can see the links between martial preparation and the war god's blessing. So even in times of peace, the priests of the god encourage readiness and training even when there are no direct threats.
Even if the god is evil, I doubt one with this approach will require human sacrifice (other than what it gleans from the fields of battle). If the god is bloodthirsty, it will require its faithful to maintain its readiness by destroying and conquering the weak (like Gruumsh). If not, it may encourage readiness by pitting the different temples against each other in tournaments, maybe in a way similar to modern sports teams. These tournaments may be a source of income as well as training.
Even if the god is evil, I doubt one with this approach will require human sacrifice (other than what it gleans from the fields of battle). If the god is bloodthirsty, it will require its faithful to maintain its readiness by destroying and conquering the weak (like Gruumsh). If not, it may encourage readiness by pitting the different temples against each other in tournaments, maybe in a way similar to modern sports teams. These tournaments may be a source of income as well as training.
Umbra
First Post
Some bits and pieces...
1. The character may be a member of a particular order within the church with a particular brief : battle field medic, scout, diplomat, supply master, warrior, siege engineer, etc(eg. the Templars were a militant order of the Catholic Church originally created to protect pilgrims to the Holy Land. The Hospitallers were to aid the ill and poor in the Holy Land.)
2. The god may be a cross between the Geneva Convention, the Red Cross, and the UN - the church is an observer that keeps the war from getting out of control, stopping any other parties from interferring or taking advantage of the fact others are at war, curbing excesses, battlefield medics, saving innocents, cleaning up the aftermath (curing, curtailing disease, raising the heroic or brave.), ensuring things get back to normal asap (especially for the locals whose lands have been ravaged).
3. The Church may take a commission for overseeing the ransoming of captives, for overseeing peace talks, validating treaties, formally announcing a god-blessed war. They have a very strong diplomatic corp who provide 'neutral' territory for discussion, try to stop clearly unbalanced wars (protect the weak), and are employed as heralds by both sides.
4. The Church will send forces to protect the lands of both sides while their armies are at wars. Or just the weaker side. Or the side that pays.
1. The character may be a member of a particular order within the church with a particular brief : battle field medic, scout, diplomat, supply master, warrior, siege engineer, etc(eg. the Templars were a militant order of the Catholic Church originally created to protect pilgrims to the Holy Land. The Hospitallers were to aid the ill and poor in the Holy Land.)
2. The god may be a cross between the Geneva Convention, the Red Cross, and the UN - the church is an observer that keeps the war from getting out of control, stopping any other parties from interferring or taking advantage of the fact others are at war, curbing excesses, battlefield medics, saving innocents, cleaning up the aftermath (curing, curtailing disease, raising the heroic or brave.), ensuring things get back to normal asap (especially for the locals whose lands have been ravaged).
3. The Church may take a commission for overseeing the ransoming of captives, for overseeing peace talks, validating treaties, formally announcing a god-blessed war. They have a very strong diplomatic corp who provide 'neutral' territory for discussion, try to stop clearly unbalanced wars (protect the weak), and are employed as heralds by both sides.
4. The Church will send forces to protect the lands of both sides while their armies are at wars. Or just the weaker side. Or the side that pays.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
------------
"What is conflict?" asked the old master.
"Bloody chaos," said the healer.
"A praticed artform," said the knight.
"A survival of ideals," said the rogue.
"Death alone," said the wizard.
"It is fair," said the student. "It is the equalizer. Those who survive do so because they are the best. But there is never enough, never a pinnacle. Whoever is the best between two sides might not be the best between a third. Conflict is honed. Conflict is skilled. Conflict is a method to perfection, achieved by cutting off the weak, and trying to cut off the strong, until it is invincible."
The master nodded. "It is the way of things."
-------------------
I see it as nearly Darwinian. Through conflict, true strength can be found. It is survival of the fittest, but it is not a chaotic system -- the fittest in any situation could be order, or chaos; good, or evil.
The church, then, should oversee wars, and encourage them. But it is not for meaningless slaughter, it is a constant process of finding the truth. Violence is the ultimate end of things, and to pretty it up with too much philosophy is nearly blasphemous. If conflict destroys all, so be it -- all was not strong enough to survive. But to the church, the conflict is the only true test of worthiness, and so to loose is to be dead. Winning *is* everything.
* Destruction: Priests who take this domain advocate causing conflict, and wish to use it as a tool. Things that are destroyed are weak. They may work behind the scenes of nations to bring revolution or war between neighbors, or work to destroy uprisings throughout it.
* Strength: Priests who take this domain advocate power. They add to the sides, to conquer and keep conquerored; they help those who are already winning, in general. They may aid an army, or assist an individual conqueror.
* War: Priests who dake this domain advocate weapons. They sell arms to all sides, and set up shops wherever they can to continue it. Since gold is a measure of power, and thus of truth potential, turning it into actual weapons and magic is easy. May the richest side win.
* Protection: Priests who take this domain advocate resisting destruction. Even the most potent warriors can be fioled if they are hit by a single ray of disintegrate. It is important to guard one's flank, and to not allow the enemy to have an upper hand. These priests are popular for helping within the nation, guarding it from subversive attacks, and make great rogue-hunters.
"What is conflict?" asked the old master.
"Bloody chaos," said the healer.
"A praticed artform," said the knight.
"A survival of ideals," said the rogue.
"Death alone," said the wizard.
"It is fair," said the student. "It is the equalizer. Those who survive do so because they are the best. But there is never enough, never a pinnacle. Whoever is the best between two sides might not be the best between a third. Conflict is honed. Conflict is skilled. Conflict is a method to perfection, achieved by cutting off the weak, and trying to cut off the strong, until it is invincible."
The master nodded. "It is the way of things."
-------------------
I see it as nearly Darwinian. Through conflict, true strength can be found. It is survival of the fittest, but it is not a chaotic system -- the fittest in any situation could be order, or chaos; good, or evil.
The church, then, should oversee wars, and encourage them. But it is not for meaningless slaughter, it is a constant process of finding the truth. Violence is the ultimate end of things, and to pretty it up with too much philosophy is nearly blasphemous. If conflict destroys all, so be it -- all was not strong enough to survive. But to the church, the conflict is the only true test of worthiness, and so to loose is to be dead. Winning *is* everything.
* Destruction: Priests who take this domain advocate causing conflict, and wish to use it as a tool. Things that are destroyed are weak. They may work behind the scenes of nations to bring revolution or war between neighbors, or work to destroy uprisings throughout it.
* Strength: Priests who take this domain advocate power. They add to the sides, to conquer and keep conquerored; they help those who are already winning, in general. They may aid an army, or assist an individual conqueror.
* War: Priests who dake this domain advocate weapons. They sell arms to all sides, and set up shops wherever they can to continue it. Since gold is a measure of power, and thus of truth potential, turning it into actual weapons and magic is easy. May the richest side win.
* Protection: Priests who take this domain advocate resisting destruction. Even the most potent warriors can be fioled if they are hit by a single ray of disintegrate. It is important to guard one's flank, and to not allow the enemy to have an upper hand. These priests are popular for helping within the nation, guarding it from subversive attacks, and make great rogue-hunters.
Dirigible
Explorer
I like your take on the ole war god, Silvanos. I see her as LN or N; war may be chaos, but it is the method for arriving at a greater, more perfect order afterwards.
Setting aside the philisophical aspects, how's this for an organisation: Every time a major war breaks out, Unlanor appoints a Polemarch, annointing a chosen person from the newly war-ravaged lands. The Polemarch learns of her clerical gifts though struggle and strife, and after acheiving glory on the battlefields (for what other outcome could a warrior truly blessed by Unlanor reach? certainly, some Polemarchs die early in their careers, but they were obviously not truly annointed) the Polemarch begins to gather followers and converts to her banner, and eventually divorces herslef and her followers form the battle, becoming a free company. The faithful of Unlanor act as something between a mercenary band, brigands, aid workers and diplomats. They are the incarnation of the savage randomness of war, but at the smae time are always working to bring the conflict to an end.
Setting aside the philisophical aspects, how's this for an organisation: Every time a major war breaks out, Unlanor appoints a Polemarch, annointing a chosen person from the newly war-ravaged lands. The Polemarch learns of her clerical gifts though struggle and strife, and after acheiving glory on the battlefields (for what other outcome could a warrior truly blessed by Unlanor reach? certainly, some Polemarchs die early in their careers, but they were obviously not truly annointed) the Polemarch begins to gather followers and converts to her banner, and eventually divorces herslef and her followers form the battle, becoming a free company. The faithful of Unlanor act as something between a mercenary band, brigands, aid workers and diplomats. They are the incarnation of the savage randomness of war, but at the smae time are always working to bring the conflict to an end.
Silvanos said:
I guess Law. Since the balance is between good and evil and she is preventing unjustified destruction. War for a cause is more akin to noble war which tends to follow the traditional association with law.
This would cause some reworking of the deity description to match though. Neutral would probably be more likely LN and hence followers that are chaotic are not quite in line, although not techincally forbidden. This could be a good place to have a split in followers and churches.
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