Help with Fighter / Bard Build

[Kilgore Trout]

Hello!

Somewhat new to 5e but have experience with D&D (in the 80s) and more recently Pathfinder. Played my first D&D 5e AL session today and loved it! Starting on the Ravenloft adventure next Saturday and have been thinking about a couple of builds. Don't have a ton of experience with multi-classing, so hoping the folks on the forum can help with my build.

Want to have some fun with the half orc Savage Attack ability by using the Improved Critical ability of the Champion fighter, but don't want to go all Fighter levels.

In Pathfinder, I had a concept for a nobleman who is also an actor of small renown who moonlights as a political activist and masked vigilante to bring down corruption in his city. So I'd like to port this concept over to 5e!

Not sure if I want to go 5 levels of fighter (to get 2nd attack) and then go into bard? Or, go 3 levels of Fighter to get Improved Critical and then Bard. Ultimately, that gives me 1 9th level spell slot. Also not sure if I want to go with Lore or Valor Bard. The Valor bard gives the medium armor proficiency and other weapons but that's redundant with the levels in Fighter. So not sure if it's better to go for the skills and the spells I get with Lore or go with Valor for that flavor those abilities. Would love to hear your thoughts!

Here is the skeleton of a build - please let me know what you think!

S - 16
D - 12 (not sure if I should leave at 10 and go with heavy armor? - thoughts?)
C - 14
I - 10 (don't want to dump but I suppose I could dump this as the Bard levels will help w/skills - thoughts?)
W - 10 (should this be 12?)
Ch - 14 (most spells will likely be buff...although I do need to review Bard spell list!)
Fighter – 1-3 or 1-5 / Bard 4-20 or 6-20
Fighting Style – Defensive (I know I could go with Great Weapon Fighting for more damage, but want the extra AC)

Level 4 - +2 STR
Level 8 - War Caster
Level 12 - +2 CON
Level 16 - +2 CON
Level 19 - +2 STR

EDIT - Just found the feat - Savage Attacker...dang, maybe go Valor Bard and grab that at 4 instead of multi-classing...?

EDIT #2 - Remembered that Fighters get ASIs at 6 and 8 as well...makes it hard to stop leveling! ha - would it even be worth it to go Fighter 1-8 and Bard 9-20?

Not sure if I get all the ASIs above if I multi-class. Also not sure if there’s another Feat I should take?
Appreciate the input of the boards!

Thanks!

KT

 

[bid]

Typical MC is fighter 1 / lore bard X to get medium armor, bard's features come in too late to dip further. If you go valor, stop before fighter 5: extra attack will not stack. If you are mostly fighter, sorcerer is the usual MC for self-buff.

Bard is not the only class you could pick to cover your concept, but with your Str build I think only paladin still fits. Lawful stupid is not a requirement anymore.

Half-orc real strength is relentless endurance. Savage attacks is just icing if you are always using your weapon. That's a weird choice for a caster and an actor, I hope you have your RP reasons and it's not misplaced optimisation.

You don't get your feats at character levels but at class levels. For instance, fighter 3 / bard 3 has no feat yet.

You seem to plan on a 2-hander. You will have a free hand to cast spell. Moreover, starting fighter give you Con save proficiency, you will make your concentration saves at +6 at level 8 already. Warcaster won't offer much.


Never mind that your concept is not optimal, this is 5e. You can have fun threading any path.

 

[n00b f00]

It's almost too bad you can't grab college of blades bard, sorta like valor but they got some fancy Zorro stuff with your fluff.

But yeah I'd say with a str half orc build. Consider starting fighter for heavy armor, putting a 10 in dex, then going valor rest of way. Maybe grabbing a second fighter level for action surge or a 3rd for archetype, though you're giving up 2 magical secrets of lvl 9 slots. If you're worried about lvl 20. Which honestly grabbing wish can be worth less to your concept than archetype.

Or doing the same but going lore and grabbing green flame blade to replace extra attacks.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Appreciate the input from you both! You cleared up some questions I had on MCing - thank you....

As I continue to noodle with this, it occurs to me I can go a few ways:

-Straight Champion Fighter, get a 12 CHA, pick the Noble background, and flesh out the non-combat aspect of the character with a feat (maybe Actor...would need 11 or 13 CHA for that to be worth it). In other words, make him a less optimal fighter (maybe even sword and board) but more capable in out of combat situations.

-Fighter 1 / Bard X as someone mentioned above...would probably go with Lore as that Cutting Words ability seems pretty sweet for combat! Fighter 8 / Bard X would give me lots of Fighter benefits but hardly any bard...not sure if that's worth it.

-Straight Valor Bard but more of a DEX build (was trying to go Strength as I'd like to play around with Grapple mechanics...)...this might even play to the concept's strengths more than trying to MC

-Research Rogue to see if that's a better concept fit.

Hard to say. Might just have to make a Fighter, see how it plays, and then change before I hit Level 5. As bid said above, can have fun threading any path, and I often fall into the trap of trying to make a character do a little bit of everything instead of overly focused in one area, so I'll keep tooling with this and see what appears....

 

[bid]

The grappler's manual?
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...ppler-s-Manual-(2-0)-Grappling-in-5th-Edition

As soon as you get athletics expertise, Str doesn't matter that much. Of your 3 plans:
- Champion 2 / rogue 1 is the quickest way to expertise, Champion 5 / rogue 2 has all you need.
- Fighter 2 / lore 3 has cutting word to compensate for the lack of extra attack.
- Valor 6 lacks action surge but is a pure caster.
They all work fine for your concept.

Going half-orc actor is definitely not a cookie-cutter build, that constrains help you to focus.

 

[Sezarious]

Fighter bard (lore) combinations are a lot of fun. Cutting words is increadibly effective and on top of this, you get expertise, which you should apply to athletics which is the skill you use for shove attacks and grapples (You can use this PLUS cutting words to great effect). If you chose battlemaster instead of champion, you can choose manoeuvres that are complemented by your athletics.

Remeber that unlike 3.5 and pathfinder, proficiency bonus isn't weakened by multiclassing ok? It's purely level based, meaning that expertise doesn't get diluted by multiclassing.

Erm... Now I may be generalising here, but generally I have found that most people initially start with the champion fighter before going with the battle-master, which often becomes peoples preferred fighter. Mathematically, the average damage of both the champion and battlemaster is balanced, but the battle master kind of has the advantage of being able to Nova strike. The other thing is that you can choose to use certain battlemaster abilities ONLY on a crit, to double the superiority dice too.

Lastly, short rests in this are really cool and generally more common than long rests. You will generally have plenty of superiority dice.

If you do go champion though, you should probably pick up a feat like shield bash or something to use your bonus action for (great with athletics).

 

[LightningArrow]

I can see a Fighter 6/Lore Bard X being great. With Additional Magical Secrets, you can grab Haste and Mirror Image for solid self-buffing.

 

[Kithas]

I can see a Fighter 6/Lore Bard X being great. With Additional Magical Secrets, you can grab Haste and Mirror Image for solid self-buffing.

That is definitely a great way to go, full casting, for utility and aoe, and solid uses for your bonus action/reaction really shore up the fighter's main weaknesses.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

That is definitely a great way to go, full casting, for utility and aoe, and solid uses for your bonus action/reaction really shore up the fighter's main weaknesses.

I like the thought of that - although I'm wondering why you wouldn't wait until Fighter 8 for the additional ASI?

 

[Kithas]

I like the thought of that - although I'm wondering why you wouldn't wait until Fighter 8 for the additional ASI?

With 6 in fighter you get 2 asi's, 8would give you 3. However you lose 7th level spells and those slots, and the 13th level bard ability which I dont recall but I would wager is better than your 7 fighter feature.