helping a friend

[Tharivious]

and I do think that someone playing a house oriented,probably evil, drow is not likely to do well in social situations.Remember, drow are taught to pretty much hate everyone.

Just a side-note here: Evil and xenophobic =/= unable to function socially. Unlikely to trust others fully, sure; likely to betray trusts, naturally; but that doesn't mean that they can't do quite well in social situations. Some of the most sociable people in the world are pathological liars that thrive on manipulating others, or deranged types that use their social talents to insinuate themselves into a position where they can strike the most damaging way that they know how.

Now, for the random tangent of the day, aimed at no one in particular, but spurred by the mere mention of it:
For the love of all that is unholy, please don't encourage more good aligned drow. Even in Faerun where the erroneously designed pantheon allows for it (this is personal opinion, don't try to argue me off of this point, it won't work), it still doesn't make any more sense than good aligned drow arising from the inherently evil race on Oerth. They wouldn't survive to adolescence, let alone adulthood - the other children would see the unwilling aspect in the good drow to do what drow should do, and kill it for sport and then be rewarded for it. Surface races, unless somehow everyone in a town is painfully naive, would never allow one to grow up in their midst, even as an orphan, because as soon as one person saw it, there would be the standard-issue torch-carrying-mob-with-pitchforks on the way. Neutral alignments push the envelope far enough in my opinion, since they can at least fake what they have to do to be proper drow.

Then again, I'm just a stickler for logic in setting design *shrugs*. If people enjoy that sort of inexplicable lapse in logic, more power to them.

 

[Mortonia]

Remember, drow are taught to pretty much hate everyone.

This isn't entirely true. It's not they're taught to hate everyone, it's that they're taught to respect power, and that they're free to do whatever they have to obtain enough power to be respected. Drow aren't a race of sociopaths - their society works quite well, as long as you accept that the underlying pinnacle of that society is the golden rule: Do whatever you want, as long as you don't get caught.

Drow are also taught to believe that they're better than everyone else (or at least that's the impression that I get). So it isn't so much hatred they have for the other races (surface elves not withstanding) as smug superiority and a overwhelming hubris that they are the pinnacle of creation. It's not that they hate humans - it's just that they have no overwhelming concern for them one way or the other. If they're in the way, kill them, otherwise, they really aren't worth your time.

To quote from the FR Underdark (3e):

...drow are cruel, arrogant, and hedonistic...
Drow trust no one and nothing, and most are incapable of compassion, kindness, or love.
...dark elves neither honor their promises, nor maintain personal loyalties once it becomes inconvenient to do so...
[Drow]can be courteous and urbane, even to dealy enemies. Their pride lends them a certain sense of style and an appreciation of subtlety.

This is not a race of slavering psychotics, frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of other races. The same source indicates that they have a grudging respect for Illithids and Duergar because, like the drow, they have developed powerful societies that hold power with an iron fist and give ground to no one who cannot take it from them. Respect is given when earned, and lost when the first hint of weakness is shown.

I could probably ramble on for days, but I'll yield the floor for the moment at least.

 

[Olath Vlos]

This isn't entirely true. It's not they're taught to hate everyone, it's that they're taught to respect power, and that they're free to do whatever they have to obtain enough power to be respected.

Drow are also taught to believe that they're better than everyone else (or at least that's the impression that I get). So it isn't so much hatred they have for the other races (surface elves not withstanding) as smug superiority and a overwhelming hubris that they are the pinnacle of creation.

"No, I don't think I'm better than everyone else. I know I am." --Olath Vlos

In any case, Drow as I play them are suspicious of others because they know from their experiences in UnderDark that everyone has a hidden agenda.

Drow are like nations in one respect: They don't have friends. They have interests.

 

[Chelyrra Eredyn]

Drow of Faerun or elsewhere may be played inside the Tavern as they are or in disguise. It is up to the player. Faerunian Drow can be of good or at least neutral alignments, and therefore may be found in such a place as the tavern. However any drow, regardless of origin, who goes outside the Tavern, runs the risk of lynching at best. Oerth folk won’t take the time to separate you from their own.

This is from the setting document for the CrossRoads Tavern, and honestly, guys, I have it from Siani herself that it's okay to show yourself openly as a drow -inside- the tavern. Because the Garden follows the same rules as the CRT (mostly to avoid confusion), it's probably officially okay in the Garden too, but I wouldn't play it that way.

Draegoloths, whoops, right! I did forget about them. ^_^ But those are created as weapons, really, and not considered normal house members?

I completely agree that drow aren't openly psychotic killers (opinions about Oerthian drow vary on this). Psychopathic killers, yes, if you get the difference. The majority are warped by breeding and culture so that they are incapable of acting otherwise.

The touchstones I use for playing a "traditional" drow are the arrogance and the mistrust. (It's a lot easier to play those than "evil", for one thing!)

Arrogance: Drow are the only truly intelligent race and any other so-called intelligent race is a talking animal (except elves, the betrayers, are talking abominations). You can admire animals, come to arrangements with them, be wary of their power and strength, be amused by them, but in the end they're just animals. Killing them is not murder, taking what they have is not theft, enslaving them is merely putting them to good use, torturing them is a way of passing the time or experimentation on the limits of pain or the qualities of a new weapon, having them as pets is fine but if the pet bites you or you tire of it, then you kill it and get a new pet.

Mistrust: Everyone is out for themselves. Even inside a house, there's constant jockeying for position and power. This isn't something to fret about, this is simply the way things are. Anyone who says they believe differently is a fool, or more likely lying in an attempt to get you to lower your guard so they can stab you in the back. If you keep your word to someone, it's only to avoid letting them use that excuse against you. Suck up to those in power: they expect it. If you hurt someone, destroy them completely so they can't come back and get you. Friendships can exist as temporary alliances to advance both at once, or because both are currently heading for different goals, but if conflict arises then self-interest is paramount. Love in some forms can exist but betrayal should never be unexpected or unconsidered.

Note that if you get these two down as character traits, you'll have no trouble being considered quite evil by ISRP standards. ;-)

Hmmm, that's quite a lot of words. Bah, see what happens when you yield the floor, Mortonia?

 

[Mortonia]

So how is it, Chelyrra, that your drow and my drow have never met? *chuckles*

And I agree with your touchstones, but I would add a third one - pride.

We are the pinnacle of evolution, the goddess' chosen children (never mind that others feel the same way, they're deluded by their deities into believing it). As such, it's our right and responsibility to punish those that wrong us, take what we desire, and destroy what we wish. If you won't bow down to us, you will be destroyed, and if you do bow down to us, we'll destroy you anyway, because you're obviously just waiting for your chance to stab us in the back.

 

[amryll]

Well, the hate part come off wrong, but everyone else got it over right.; Um, on the topic of good drow, the points made are good ones, even to the player of one,but I have to partly disagree.A good femle, not likely, a male, more soe, less of an outward show of evil is needed.Seems to me even a good one could fake enough of it to manage, especialy if they were removed from the hostile enviroment at a young age.Also it some what goes back to the power issue,if a good drow has enough of it,small groups or individuals tend to be disinclined to try to do anything about it.Plus i am a beleiver in that there are always exceptions, and in my mind,although I like Drizzt, he's a terrible example of a drow, even a good one.
Also, it would seem that it is drow season once more,expect and influx of them.

 

[Mystearia]

Well on a note since Dreagloths were mentioned as well as drow from other planes,
draegloth are more or less revered as leaders and adept combatants, i myself played one on wizards of the coast.
now on the drow from other planes, i know they exist in variants on alomost any plane that elves can live in, so that said, the drow my friend plays is an eberron drow that came from the shadow marches where it is common to see evil and good creatures in numbers, unless a swamp creature gets them first, but his drow is not evil or good simply because he has not seen another drow in his lifetime, anyway, ya'll can debate this all ya want, my friend has contacted a few people who posted here about joning a house and hes gotten a few replies but is still decideing because its mostly by e-mail, if anyone has any questions about my friends drow they can reach him at my adress ghostly_artist@yahoo.com ,yes i know this adress might seem fimiliar to some and unknown to others.

Chao

 

[Tharivious]

Draegoloths, whoops, right! I did forget about them. ^_^ But those are created as weapons, really, and not considered normal house members?

Ahh, draegloths... I do believe I was the first to bring one of those nasties to the chats, all those years ago. Ah, memories... Anyhow:

Largely correct. Specially bred during grand rituals, viewed as blessings and portents that the time has arrived for their house to go to war and exterminate a rival. They're a means to an end. While a draegloth is intelligent, they aren't patient strategists, not exactly leadership material. They are certainly treated differently from average members, and not always for the better.

By the rulebooks, they are effectively living, thinking engines of destruction and trained as such, whether as warriors or as the standard mage/cleric progression of the race, and kept on an exceptionally short leash due to the threat that their innate power would pose to the nobles. By the novels... it's best to ignore them, since the authors generally ignore what the setting originally puts forth, and then further writers muddy the waters even more... but I'll stop there before I go into my patented and trademarked "Why Wizards of the Coast doesn't know what they're doing" rant.

A good femle, not likely, a male, more soe, less of an outward show of evil is needed.Seems to me even a good one could fake enough of it to manage, especialy if they were removed from the hostile enviroment at a young age.

So a good aligned individual can fake the required lies, cheating, stealing, poisoning, betrayal, politicking, and murder without losing their moral ground or going insane? One of two things happen when one constantly commits evil acts: you either get comfortable enough with them that you become evil yourself, or your conscience overcomes your senses and you lose who you are to madness. Male drow still need to be ready to knife each other in the back, betray their best friends at the drop of a hat, and steal from one another to avoid disappointing someone more powerful; if anything, they're watched more closely, since they're the ones that get made an example of when they slip up.

I've already addressed the removal from the environment issue, and why that still defies setting logic. I don't feel the need to readdress it.

Also it some what goes back to the power issue,if a good drow has enough of it,small groups or individuals tend to be disinclined to try to do anything about it.

They have to survive long enough to get that power, which they won't do considering that in a culture where climbing over your friends with daggers as pitons is encouraged from birth, showing weakness by hesitating can be enough to leave you stuck as the omega in a room full of alphas.

It's Darwinism, pure and simple - survival of the fittest and most willing to survive, and generally, you don't hold on to good-aligned morality while betraying, using, and abusing the children you grew up with as you try to climb the social ladder. Evolution does not reward reluctance.

Also, it would seem that it is drow season once more,expect and influx of them.

Precisely why Sril've Cress is coming back en masse, meaner and leaner than ever, in the very near future. Mind you, not in the Tavern or Rotunda.

the drow my friend plays is an eberron drow

In that case, very little of the House/Matron structure might apply. Eberron drow have a very, very different feel than drow of other planes. In Eberron, drow typically hail from the jungles of a separate continent (the one starting with an X, I couldn't really get into the setting enough to learn the regional names, honestly), and I'm about 99% sure that they have nothing to do with the Lolth-archetype familiar to the other key settings (especially since religions have an entirely different setup in Eberron than other settings), I don't even know if they have a default alignment, since I only have the core setting book. Someone with more Eberron material would be able to help a lot more here than I would.

 

[Tyrian_Spellstealer]

In that case, very little of the House/Matron structure might apply. Eberron drow have a very, very different feel than drow of other planes. In Eberron, drow typically hail from the jungles of a separate continent (the one starting with an X, I couldn't really get into the setting enough to learn the regional names, honestly), and I'm about 99% sure that they have nothing to do with the Lolth-archetype familiar to the other key settings (especially since religions have an entirely different setup in Eberron than other settings), I don't even know if they have a default alignment, since I only have the core setting book. Someone with more Eberron material would be able to help a lot more here than I would.

Yeah, theres no Lolth in Eberron, nor do they have a default alignment (very few things really do in Eberron). That said, they do worship a scorpion god called Vulkoor, and because of the savage nature of the continent they live on tend to have a rather savage (not necessarily innately evil, however) personality. Eberron drow would more likely belong to a tribe rather then a house, but thats all assuming they grew up in Xen'Drik. That said, a drow growing up in the shadow marches (whilst extremly rare) would justifiably have no tie to either a good or evil alignment, nor really have heard much about other drow either. Drow on Eberron are not innately evil (nothing is as far as my understanding with the campaign goes), but usually grow up in harsh environments. How they got from Xen'drik to Khroviare though would take some comprehensive back story I guess, but one could argue if they made their way to other planes and met more drow they would rightly be intrigued by how they do things.
It really depends what kind of Eberron drow you're playing: a drow that grew up in a tribe in the harsh jungles of Xen'drik, or one that did not. One that did not would indeed have a rather curious nature as to his or her own identity as a drow, and that could be thrown rather wildly into delightful RPing chaos by meeting other planar drow such as from Faerun. On the other hand, a drow who grew up in Xen'drik would probably be similarly as savage as a 'default' dnd Drow due to the similar harsh environments they both grow up in, but definately not similarly as evil. There are many drow tribes in Xen'drik, and whilst small and perhaps dominated by the scorpion god Vulkoor (who is arguably an evil god), not all are bound by such (its a big continent and still rather unexplored by the 'civilised' nations of Khrovaire).
The only true similarity between an Eberron Drow growing up in Xen'drik and a default drow would be a dislike for other elven races.

Conclusively, an Eberron drow that did not grow up in the Xen'drik nation that managed to find their way into other planes would probably be fascinated and greatly intrigued by how other drow society works. Wether or not that would take them far enough as to adopt a house or mistress, or even a drow religion, is really dependent on the individual character in question. Quite simply, its quite a flexible role.

Just thought i'd put in the two cents from the Eberron side of the planes.