Heroes of Horror: Archivist class

[Mouseferatu]

Even better.

The Archivist can scribe any divine scroll into his spellbook. Although the class's creator - Mouseferatu - has mentioned that this wasn't his goal, he's allowed in an intriguing "exploit."

Minor correction. I said the archivist wasn't part of the book I wrote. But that said, I've worked very closely with C.A. for a long time, and I've looked at the class since the book came out, so I feel fairly comfortable in talking about both intent and result.

 

[Mouseferatu]

As for that particular loophole, I don't think it's a flaw of the archivist. I think it's a flaw in the way the item creation rules fit together, and I will never in a million years believe the original core designers ever intended to allow "divine scrolls of arcane spells," and the like.

Once that (IMO silly and clearly unintentional) loophole is closed or ignored, the archivist poses little problem.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Once that (IMO silly and clearly unintentional) loophole is closed or ignored, the archivist poses little problem.

I'm not so sure that it's unintentional or silly - especially when approached from the other direction.

Consider a wizard and a cleric working together on a scroll of Cure Light Wounds. The wizard - who knows how to scribe scrolls - is providing one prereq, while the cleric - who knows CLW - is providing another.

When the cleric is designated as the creator, the scroll is divine, and the cleric can use it, or hand it off to his druid, advanced ranger, or advanced paladin friend.

When the wizard is designated as the creator, the scroll is arcane, and therefore not useful at all to the cleric. Similarly, it's not useful at all to the wizard, who doesn't have the spell on his class spell list. So, what do you do with an arcane scroll of CLW? Why, you hand it to the bard, of course, who is an arcane caster with CLW on his class spell list.

Similarly, the spell silence appears as both arcane and divine (Clr 2 and Brd 2). There's also Freedom of Movement - again, Bard and Cleric, but also Assassin (arcane) and Druid, Luck, and Ranger (divine).

The problem, I don't think, is in the fact that someone can make what is normally a completely useless scroll (like a divine scroll of Wish). The problem, if in fact it is one, is that someone gave a class an ability that makes them useful - but probably didn't realize he was doing it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'm not so sure that it's unintentional or silly - especially when approached from the other direction.

Consider a wizard and a cleric working together on a scroll of Cure Light Wounds. The wizard - who knows how to scribe scrolls - is providing one prereq, while the cleric - who knows CLW - is providing another.

When the cleric is designated as the creator, the scroll is divine, and the cleric can use it, or hand it off to his druid, advanced ranger, or advanced paladin friend.

When the wizard is designated as the creator, the scroll is arcane, and therefore not useful at all to the cleric. Similarly, it's not useful at all to the wizard, who doesn't have the spell on his class spell list. So, what do you do with an arcane scroll of CLW? Why, you hand it to the bard, of course, who is an arcane caster with CLW on his class spell list.

Similarly, the spell silence appears as both arcane and divine (Clr 2 and Brd 2). There's also Freedom of Movement - again, Bard and Cleric, but also Assassin (arcane) and Druid, Luck, and Ranger (divine).

Fair argument. My objection to such a thing may be purely based in flavor and personal preference, as opposed to the rules. But I know that in any of my own campaigns, a cleric cannot make an arcane scroll of cure light wounds, no matter who helps. If a bard wants that scroll, he's got to get it from another bard (or other arcane class that can cast it).

So long as the game maintains the arcane/divine divide, I prefer to keep it as solid a line as possible. But again, that's not a rules argument, just a preference once.

You may be right. It may simply be that C.A. was unaware of that particular detail of the rules. (Until this whole discussion, so was I, and I've been playing spellcasters on and off since 3E was first released.) So I think I can safely say, so far as it's ever safe to speak for someone else, that the class was not designed with that capability in mind. It's meant to be restricted to divine spells, not "divine versions" of arcane spells.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Hrm. We've been using cross-typed scrolls and wands and the like since early on. Wizards get the feats, clerics get the spells, bards have the spell list, and that useless little fop needs SOMETHING to do ... thus the Arcane Cure X Wand is built.

Seemed intuitive to us, but my groups have always liked to work together on things, so having one person MAKE and another person CAST just seemed natural.

--fje

 

[Rassilon]

The Archivist uses both Int and Wisdom, I believe.

Nope. Pure Int caster.

The "Abilities" section recommends a good Wisdom to "face corruption", but it is not required for spellcasting. Given that the Archivist has good Fort and Will, I would have thought that most corruption was covered anyway.

So yes, there is the possibility of MT without MAD.

In fact, even excluding the 'all arcane spells are divine spells' thingy, with the option to pick from any divine list - or with enough time and cash - every spell off every divine list, the Archivist barely needs to go MT.


Rassilon.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Hrm. We've been using cross-typed scrolls and wands and the like since early on.

Well, wands are spell trigger items, and are therefore untyped.

 

[Dalamar]

Actually, the Archivist does require both Int and Wis. It's just that what they gain from Wis is bonus spells per day, which means that it most cases they can focus on just Int.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Actually, the Archivist does require both Int and Wis. It's just that what they gain from Wis is bonus spells per day, which means that it most cases they can focus on just Int.

That's what I thought.

 

[Dark Psion]

Whats the archivists spell list look like?

He has access to all the basic Cleric spells, but no domains.

He also has Dark Knowledge that allows him to use his Knowledge skill to aid his companions similar to the way a Bard uses Perform. He can only use his Dark Knowledge on Magical Beasts, Aberrations, Undead, Outsiders and Elementals. There are several feats that enhance this ability to affect other creature types.

He also gets Scribe Scroll feat
Lore Mastery: +2 bonus to Decipher Script & One Knowledge skill. Three additional Knowledge skill bonuses at higher levels.
Still Mind: +2 vs Enchanment School
2 Bonus Feats: Must choose from Skill Focus, Spell Focus, Metamagic or Item Creation feats.

His Spellcasting tops out with 4 0 level and 5 1st-9th level spells.