Heroes of the Feywild: Fey Themes

[chitzk0i]

IMO the level 10 utility, Companion Form, should really be a daily, not an encounter.

How so? You can't even use basic attacks without ending the power and all it gets you is speed 8 or climb 6 (the owlbear gives you neither of those, though). Sure, it gives your allies another source for your pet's buff area, but do you really want to go the an appreciable amount of time without even being able to plant a battle standard of healing?

I'm kind of annoyed that the pet is apparently not trained in any skill. Still, my halfling beastmaster ranger|rogue is going to be switching from a raptor companion to a fey panther because then he'll be able to use any rogue power instead of mostly the at-will that gives you CA if you have an ally adjacent.

 

[Zaphling]

In defense for the Animal Master theme, yes everyone is correct that the Fey Beast Tamer is more powerful but their bonuses only applies in battles, and not outside of battles. I may be wrong here but as I reviewed the Animal Master, the animals (although they are minions) provide a big boost to a specific skills. For example, cats provide their masters with no -5 penalty for moving during stealth checks; dogs and hawks provide +4 to Perception; monkeys and ravens provide a +2 to Thievery plus they can do the thievery themselves too. Basically, the Animal Master is not meant for combat, while the fey beast tamer theme is.
Just to add, it explains in the dragon article that animal master's companion does not actually participate in battle but just hides or retreats to safety due to the fact that their size is TINY.

And I have to agree to the person in this thread who said something about beast master rangers. If you think the fey beast tamer is outpowering the beast companions, why not take the theme too, it's free - beast companion + fey beast companion = win win.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

In defense for the Animal Master theme, yes everyone is correct that the Fey Beast Tamer is more powerful but their bonuses only applies in battles, and not outside of battles. I may be wrong here but as I reviewed the Animal Master, the animals (although they are minions) provide a big boost to a specific skills. For example, cats provide their masters with no -5 penalty for moving during stealth checks; dogs and hawks provide +4 to Perception; monkeys and ravens provide a +2 to Thievery plus they can do the thievery themselves too. Basically, the Animal Master is not meant for combat, while the fey beast tamer theme is.
Just to add, it explains in the dragon article that animal master's companion does not actually participate in battle but just hides or retreats to safety due to the fact that their size is TINY.

And I have to agree to the person in this thread who said something about beast master rangers. If you think the fey beast tamer is outpowering the beast companions, why not take the theme too, it's free - beast companion + fey beast companion = win win.

The better question would be why would you ever bother with a Beast Master ranger build to start with at this point? Just about the ONLY advantage to the build is you get to use your BC as a point to set your HQ from. That's FAIRLY nice, but if I can instead keep Prime Shot and all the huge bonuses the related feats can get me, AND have a beast that is as good as the BMR one clearly that's the best option. These FBM beasts also have MUCH better damage output than the BMR BCs. They do have a bit less hit points in general, but you can also 'resummon' them quite easily, even in combat!

I can understand the difference with the standard Animal Master theme, but I still say this one clearly overshadows it for most people. There may not be defined FBM out-of-combat benefits, but your beast doesn't vanish (unless you want it to, lol). It can do the most basic useful things that any companion can, like march around in front of the party clearing traps, doing some basic scouting, etc. I agree there will be cases where the tiny animals are more useful, but there are other ways to get the main benefits there, like a cat familiar or various rituals.

I like the concept of this theme, and I think it does better embody the companion animal concept in general than previous attempts, but I'm a bit torn on the implementation as a theme. It seems like a REALLY powerful theme. There are a couple others that might arguably be close, but this one seems a bit stronger than what seems sensible for a theme.

 

[keterys]

Quarry from the beast is pretty cool, and minor action attacks at higher level. Also the paragon path where you get to make ranged OAs when someone attacks your beast.

For games that don't use Dragon, Prime Shot is also a lot less cool (Called Shot is Dragon).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Quarry from the beast is pretty cool, and minor action attacks at higher level. Also the paragon path where you get to make ranged OAs when someone attacks your beast.

For games that don't use Dragon, Prime Shot is also a lot less cool (Called Shot is Dragon).

Eh, doesn't seem like there are all that many games playing with subsets of stuff these days. I agree though Prime Shot doesn't help you a LOT in heroic tier. Still, it is really the main disadvantage of using Beast Master. I think I'd find it VERY tempting to take the theme and go pure archer ranger. Battlefield Archer is still well worth the slight loss on HQ flexibility, and having the extra blocker is gold.

Consider a whole fey themed party with this theme. Having 5 extra blockers? Quite nice. It just seems like a theme that is taking themes rather out of their existing niche. Not a bad thing really, but there's some definite inflation there. I guess it all marches back to the whole "what could be improved in 4e" meme. Stronger and more significant themes is a good way to go. It would be nice if there was some cutting back someplace though, and a more consistent approach.

HotFW is going to be fun though.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, the whole 5 rangers with 5 shaman companions thing just got to add "and 5 fey companions" to their line of blockers.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, the whole 5 rangers with 5 shaman companions thing just got to add "and 5 fey companions" to their line of blockers.

Yeah, one could go pretty crazy with the whole thing in a hypothetical sense at least. Lets see... 5 sentinels MCed into either an arcane class for familiars or shaman for SCs, all with the Fey Animal Master theme, or whatever other various combinations one can come up with...

You could certainly end up with 10 really solid blockers AND some additional minor added figures on the board. It is of course a BIT far fetched, but no doubt somewhere there's someone who will give it a try. Probably make combat slow as a glacier, but it might be pretty amusing and would probably be fairly effective. Especially if you went with a mix of different 'got me a companion' builds and pulled a few tricks here and there. Toss in a few decent summons and you could really give the DM a nice headache...

 

[Rechan]

This seems powerful, a theme giving you a companion. Doesn't quite compare to the Dark Sun themes. Or even the Neverwinter themes?

They need to settle on a power level and crank more out.

 

[keterys]

It compares fine to Noble Adept (Dark Sun), Guardian (Dragon), and Pack Outcast (Neverwinter), as well as probably Harper Agent, Sohei, Iron Wolf Barbarian while we're at it.

But, yeah, they are a bit all over the map.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Kind of in the same way that 2e kits used to be - a handful were solid gold, and everyone took them, while the rest were flavourful but nigh useless. Most players I knew would duplicate the flavour with their normal proficiency (or whatever) choices and just take the "good" kits anyway.

I imagine that from a charop perspective, themes will go the same way, but some of the "lesser" themes might still see use in normal average games.