Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms

[GMforPowergamers]

Please forgive me if I am asking something already covered, but are you saying that Half-Elves only get +1 to their own Diplomacy rolls now, or did you mean the old Group Diplomacy, and they still get +2 Diplomacy/+2 Insight?

Thanks.

wait... you have to pick human or elf now instead of both for feats...

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

"Depends a lot on the character, and the campaign. Most of my characters aren't all that strapped for healing surges and have pretty good access to other surge triggers, but getting out of a dazed (save ends)... or worse... yeah, that could free me up to get something really important solved."

Ya I see what you're saying, I mean saves are important, but compare it to Superior Will, and you'll see how lame it is. A feat is arguably a more important resource than an item daily (especially with the no limit on item dailies...which was kludge rule I'm glad they did away with...we didn't use it anyway, and nobody tried to keep a bag of level 1 items either), but still, Delver's costs the same as Blood Iron property, which is waaaaaay better.

Problem with daily item uses like that is that it's not a FUN use of an item daily. It's like, yeah I can see how it COULD be useful, but in each battle where I had a save that I missed, did I miss by 2 or less? And even if I did, how do I know the next battle I won't need to save sooner, than this one? If it's do or die, sure use it, but most of the time you're struggling to find the optimal time to use it. Dwarven just works. Every day. Always useful. Still a daily power, but it increases your power in a clear, mechanically simple way that doesn't require much thought about when to use it. Are you about to die and already used up your second wind / all your surges? If so, now's the time. That's a good magic item. One that doesn't make me feel like I'm betting against myself, or the odds that I'll be worse off later than now. Ugh, that kind of thinking gets annoying after a while. Like I said, I had Delver's for like two levels and didn't use it once. Granted, that's a heroic...but the higher versions of Delver's don't scale. IMO = Crap.

 

[keterys]

Ya I see what you're saying, I mean saves are important, but compare it to Superior Will, and you'll see how lame it is. A feat is arguably a more important resource than an item daily (especially with the no limit on item dailies...which was kludge rule I'm glad they did away with...we didn't use it anyway, and nobody tried to keep a bag of level 1 items either), but still, Delver's costs the same as Blood Iron property, which is waaaaaay better.

Superior Will is more powerful than you should be getting from an item... and note that it actually makes Delver's Armor a much stronger candidate, since it can mean you're more likely to get to take your turn.

A ranged character is likely better off with Delver's than Bloodiron. I'm not saying it's exceptional, but it's not quite as bad as you're making it out to be.

Problem with daily item uses like that is that it's not a FUN use of an item daily. It's like, yeah I can see how it COULD be useful, but in each battle where I had a save that I missed, did I miss by 2 or less? And even if I did, how do I know the next battle I won't need to save sooner, than this one? If it's do or die, sure use it, but most of the time you're struggling to find the optimal time to use it. Dwarven just works. Every day. Always useful. Still a daily power, but it increases your power in a clear, mechanically simple way that doesn't require much thought about when to use it. Are you about to die and already used up your second wind / all your surges? If so, now's the time. That's a good magic item. One that doesn't make me feel like I'm betting against myself, or the odds that I'll be worse off later than now. Ugh, that kind of thinking gets annoying after a while. Like I said, I had Delver's for like two levels and didn't use it once. Granted, that's a heroic...but the higher versions of Delver's don't scale. IMO = Crap.

The trick is that I've found myself missing saves by 1 or 2 a _lot_ more than I've found myself about to die or with no surges available.

Dwarven is one of those items I might use once or twice a campaign, but I'd otherwise save for just the right time that never came up. Doesn't make it bad - it's one of the most powerful 2/7/x options. Just makes it not that helpful for a lot of different characters. Now, a melee rogue or ranger who has no Con bonus and is in melee a lot getting squished... well, they're likely not wearing it, but at least they'd use that power

For comparison, I've had a few characters get 'pick any 17th' or 12th, or whatever armor choices before, or gotten to swap out Veteran's for something at the same level, and I've taken Resistance once (necrotic themed campaign) and Screaming once (it fit the character perfectly). I can't remember the level 7 one I took, but it wasn't Dwarven either.

 

[WalterKovacs]

What does the hexblade 4th power Lesser Planar Ally do?

From the WOTC preview, it sounds like you can't use it for combat.

It's a pseudo-ritual similar to the ones other classes get (like the resurection rituals essential leaders get, etc)

Basically, you summon a tiny invisible spirit to do some scouting for you. Either it will help to locate a specific person or object within 5 miles [you have to have seen or touched the object/person in the past] OR it can explore a 20x20 square and give you basic information of terrain features [it can't open doors so it has to be somewhere a tiny creature can get into, and it can't see anything that needs a Perception check to see]

In both cases, it has up to an hour to complete the task, and it relays the information back to you telepathically when it completes the task.

 

[Retreater]

I got my copy after encounters yesterday. I haven't spent a lot of time with it yet, but scanning through, I have to say that I'm overall a little disappointed after "Heroes of the Fallen Lands."

I don't know if any of my gripes have been aired earlier in this thread, but here they are.

First, the book is approximately 2/3rds a reprint of HotFL. Other than the new classes and races, there is very little different between the two books. The same equipment, the same feats, etc. It's a copy and paste job of the first book in the Essentials line.

Second, at least in the case of my copy, the printing is off. There are entire sections where the colors are offset, making a blurry mess of illustration and making some text difficult to read.

Overall, it's a disappointment to me (though not as big of a disappointment as the DM's Kit).

Retreater

 

[abyssaldeath]

First, the book is approximately 2/3rds a reprint of HotFL. Other than the new classes and races, there is very little different between the two books. The same equipment, the same feats, etc. It's a copy and paste job of the first book in the Essentials line.

That is done so that new people can pick up either HotFL or HotFK and start playing.

Second, at least in the case of my copy, the printing is off. There are entire sections where the colors are offset, making a blurry mess of illustration and making some text difficult to read.

Sounds like you got a defective one. I would return it and get a new one.

 

[Oulak]

...First, the book is approximately 2/3rds a reprint of HotFL. Other than the new classes and races, there is very little different between the two books. The same equipment, the same feats, etc. It's a copy and paste job of the first book in the Essentials line....

I'd actually say it's closer to about 2/3 NOT reprint of HotFL. This is actually exactly what I was hoping for. I really wanted the books to overlap the basics so that when I'm running my druid, I can bring just a character sheet folded up inside my HFK, a pencil, and a fistfull of dice and be set.

What are the alternatives? A new equipment section with a different backpack, a 55' coil of rope, a long-er sword? Or just omitting those items wholesale and WotC saying "sorry, you also need to bring your HFL?" The book has the same amount of content for the classes and races, they didn't skimp on any of that.

I'm not directing any rudeness towards you Retreater. It just seems that no matter what decision WotC makes, they get flak for it. When I see a criticism against what I think makes absolute perfect sense, I get annoyed.

As for your problem with the printing color being offset, I feel for you there. You have every right to be disappointed in that. WotC could use some better quality control in that area.

 

[Retreater]

I'm not directing any rudeness towards you Retreater. It just seems that no matter what decision WotC makes, they get flak for it. When I see a criticism against what I think makes absolute perfect sense, I get annoyed.

I understand what you mean. I guess my preference would be either have different information - maybe geared toward "advanced players" - or simply release this as a cheaper book as a supplement to HotFL - like an 80 pg. pamphlet.

Maybe I'm just a little burned by the Essentials line. Everything seems like a cut and paste of the same information (from other Essentials products). It's as if there wasn't a clear idea going into it that 1) this information should be in the Rules Compendium and 2) that information should be in the DM's Kit and 3) that table should be in the Heroes of the Forgotten Lands.

Everything just seems a jumble of information, reprocessed and stretched out to 1,150 pages ... which makes the game more unwieldy than it could have been (which was 550 pages when the Core Rules were orginally printed).

Retreater

 

[Syrsuro]

DRUID KNACKS

Beast Empathy: +2 Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate against Beasts. Simple communication. Insight check to get basic messages from its body language.

Herb Lore: Can add 2 to surge value when surging during short rest. Must have access to plants. scales at 11th and 21st level.

Mountain Guide: when you make an athletics check to climb, you reduce the check by 2 for your allies.

Watchful Rest: do not take -5 penalty to Perception while sleeping during extended rest.

Wilderness Tracker: during short rest, can make Perception check to determine creatures that moved through the area in the past 24 hours.

Additional RANGER KNACKS

Ambush Expertise: When you make a stealth check, allies get +2 bonus to their stealth checks.

Just a quick clarification about the knacks...

Does "Additional Ranger Knacks" mean that both rangers and druids can choose from the ones under "druid" or are those druid only and there are some more ranger-only knack to choose from?

Carl

 

[Mapache]

Everything just seems a jumble of information, reprocessed and stretched out to 1,150 pages ... which makes the game more unwieldy than it could have been (which was 550 pages when the Core Rules were orginally printed).

Remember, that's 1150 6"x9" pages vs 550 8.5"x11" pages. If we look at total surface area, it's only 20% more, and if we consider margins, then it's only 11% more text.