"He's beyond my healing ability..."

[TarionzCousin]

What about using those alternate rules where when [-]a monster[/-] someone dies they explode for 20d6 damage?

"My last words: let the kingdom know--"
"Did he say 'last words'? That's it; I'm outta here."
"Yeah. We're running."

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Heh, I haven't used this shtick since the seventies.

I did lampoon the heck out of it once though.

The victim would say his last words, and fall silent with a rattle....
Then he would take a deep breath and say some more, choke and go limp....
As soon as their backs were turned he would start talking again, this time fading as his voice grew quieter and quieter... then he started snoring.

I am all in favor of the PCs saving the poor fellow in situations like this, he was likely poisoned, Con at 1 or 2 from the damage, so it is going to be a long slow haul to recovery, but when he recovers he will remember them.

The Auld Grump

 

[Cyberzombie]

I guess this comes down to different expectations of the game? I had a player, who we otherwise have a blast gaming together, feel like I was railroading them/gimping his bard because I introduced a situation with an NPC on their deathbed who was "beyond healing...even an inspired étude with lyre accompaniment."

I would never, ever do this in any form of D&D or Pathfinder. It just doesn't fit the rules. It annoys me in Final Fantasy, too -- why is the NPC dead? Why can't we just use a Phoenix Down on him?

Now, Exalted -- there if you're dead, you're dead. Then this would be a good story element there. There are many classic storylines that just don't work in D&D and this is top of the list.

Of course, if you and your players enjoy it, it's all good. You just have to be able to ignore the fact that the system is mocking you as you do it.

 

[steeldragons]

He's already "dead" in D&D terms. The DM just gave him a "last speech" ability.

Honestly, if you're gonna get all technical about NPC monologues (whether in mid-combat or at the point of death) you're not gonna achieve much in the fantasy milieu, and especially not in the D&D ruleset. It's not designed for simulation of reality, but for heroic dramatics. One has to adopt a certain supsension of disbelief at the door, otherwise we'll be criticising the physics behind Superman's flight.

This.

If it's an NPC that needs to die...then he dies. If the PCs are able to revive him, then spend the spells, and bring him back in as an important NPC. But, as Morrus points out, if it disrupts the suspension of disbielf to have him being a living/talking NPC, then...don't do it. He dies.

The cleric can do everything he can....How many desperate scenes in an ER or hospital room have we watched over the years? The Cleric can do his BEST work...and the NPC can still die...after the dying breath being something that helps the party.

Just my dos coppers.
--SD

 

[prosfilaes]

The cleric can do everything he can....How many desperate scenes in an ER or hospital room have we watched over the years? The Cleric can do his BEST work...and the NPC can still die...after the dying breath being something that helps the party.

But my cleric isn't a doctor; he has the magical power to stop people from dying, no die roll needed. But because the plot demands it, suddenly my PC's powers stop working. It's like saving against block text; all of a sudden, control over what your character does is taken away from you because of DM fiat.

 

[pawsplay]

But my cleric isn't a doctor; he has the magical power to stop people from dying, no die roll needed. But because the plot demands it, suddenly my PC's powers stop working. It's like saving against block text; all of a sudden, control over what your character does is taken away from you because of DM fiat.

Where does it say in the rules that a cleric has the magical power to stop people from dying?

 

[Relique du Madde]

But my cleric isn't a doctor; he has the magical power to stop people from dying, no die roll needed. But because the plot demands it, suddenly my PC's powers stop working. It's like saving against block text; all of a sudden, control over what your character does is taken away from you because of DM fiat.

BUT your Cleric's magical powers are based on the will of a deity. It is not innate, and can be revolved by the will of the deities and the whims of fate since he is but a lowly mortal playing with forces that he doesn't understand without the intercession of the holy. His powers can fail. He knows this, since he may have seen the powers of other clerics fail them if theirdeity or the NPC's deity deems him/her worthy enough to enter the afterlife unabated or if they decided that the NPC doesn't deserve to be healed or remain in the realms of the living for one of countless reasons.

Like it or not, when you try to use magic and powers as a justification of why you can do X, you need to remember that their are larger forces outside of your character's control who can put an end to their desires.... That is unless they want to wage war against the deities and Ascend to Godhood.

 

[prosfilaes]

BUT your Cleric's magical powers are based on the will of a deity. His powers can fail him if your cleric's deity or the NPC's deity deems him/her worthy enough to enter the afterlife or if they decided that the NPC doesn't deserve to be healed or remain in the realms of the living for one of countless reasons.

I won't dismiss it a priori. But it depends on a meddling view of the gods that just doesn't show up much in D&D, and it doesn't make sense in a lot of cases. Why is my god Mishakal stopping me from healing this peasant boy who is also her worshipper? What if it's a wand or potion?

If the only time this comes up is in these cutscenes, it's just an excuse. I don't want excuses; I want a world that plays by fair rules that I can influence.

Like it or not, when you try to use magic and powers as a justification of why you can do X, you need to remember that their are larger forces outside of your character's control who can put an end to their desires....

If the game is about those larger forces playing, then it's no fun. I want to play, not watch the DM play.

 

[mhensley]

I've been playing around with the idea of requiring different levels of the cure spell depending upon how bad you're hurt. Maybe something like-

positive hp to 0hp - cure light wounds works
-1 to -5 hp - needs at least cure moderate to heal
< -5hp - needs at least cure serious to heal

If you don't have access to the required healing spell, you'll need a doctor and bed rest to get back up to 0.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I've been playing around with the idea of requiring different levels of the cure spell depending upon how bad you're hurt. Maybe something like-

positive hp to 0hp - cure light wounds works
-1 to -5 hp - needs at least cure moderate to heal
< -5hp - needs at least cure serious to heal

If you don't have access to the required healing spell, you'll need a doctor and bed rest to get back up to 0.

Just don't be surprised when the dead PCs are rolled out on gurneys....

If the NPC gotta die then kill him off while he writes a cryptic note... ever seen d'Artagnan's Daughter?

Let the PCs find his corpse, or, in the best film noir tradition, have some palooka shoot him one last time from concealment. 'It was Car' *Blam!*

The Auld Grump, there's a million stories in this Naked City... so why do I keep hearing this one?