D&D 5E Hexblade as a fighter archetype

[Lanliss]

This thread, while inspired by the UA Hexblade, is actually about a Fighter Archetype called Hexblade, who is 1/3rd caster Warlock style, similar to the EK/Wizard relationship. For the purposes of my games, the Warlock Hexblade will actually not exist, and will be replaced by this.

I will be doing this for Paladin as well, since I like the idea of both.

My Design Thoughts
Fighter will have 3 spell slots, which will refresh on a short rest. I know this is almost the same as the Warlock they are based on, but this fighter will not have access to the number of Mystic Arcanum that the normal Warlock has.

Max spell level of 4, all chosen from the Warlock spell list+ Patron spells (for example, you can be a Fiend Hexblade, instead of Hexblade being the patron.)

Fighter will get 2 invocations by level 20.

Might get a single "mystic arcanum", but as a 5th level Warlock spell.

Final Spells known for Warlock is 15+some mystic Arcanum, how many should I give fighter? 7-8+the single arcanum?

I want the Patron features to be different from the Warlock ones, but not sure how I should handle this. Do not want the first to be the Blade Boon, since that is inherently better than the Eldritch Knight's own bonded weapon.

Any additional thoughts I might have missed?

EDITed for clarity.

 

[seebs]

I'd probably start them with one or two spell slots. Consider that, at 3rd level, 3 would be more than the warlock gets until 11th.

 

[Xeviat]

The Warlock is a full caster. The EK is a 1/3rd caster. A warlock-esque fighter subclass should only get up to as much Spell power as a 9th level warlock.

Remember, a level 3 EK gets 2 spell slots per day. With 2 short rests, a hexblade would already be ahead.

I think it would be a good place for it, on the fighter. Paladin could work too, but they have their own spells so you'd only be adding other things. Paladins make an oath and follow a cause; making an oath is similar to making a pact, so I could see it.


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[Lanliss]

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant 3 slots by the end, so a level 20 Hexblade would have 3 slots per short rest+1 Arcanum per long rest by level 20, for a grand total of 10 spells cast. They would definitely start with only 1 spell slot.

 

[Leatherhead]

How would you handle the "charisma as your weapon attack stat" feature on either class?

For the record, I would lean more towards the fighter, if only for the use of the Blade cantrips.

 

[Lanliss]

How would you handle the "charisma as your weapon attack stat" feature on either class?

For the record, I would lean more towards the fighter, if only for the use of the Blade cantrips.

I have been thinking about that. Not sure I would actually allow full Charisma to attack/damage rolls, but maybe add Half your charisma mod (rounded up) to your attack and damage roll? For a grand total, assuming max Cha and Str, of +8. Does not seem game breaking, but a noticeable bonus, considering it will also be the casting stat. Makes the fighter fairly MAD, but he gets plenty of stat boosts to change that.

I also had not even thought of cantrips. I would say the fighter will only be getting 2-3 (leaning towards 2 personally) by the end, since EK gets 3 to the wizards 5.

 

[Lanliss]

Alright, I think I have the basic list down, so I will start with Spell progression.

Spell list is Warlock Spells+Patron spells (as found in the Warlock section)

I forgot just how many Invocations the Warlock got, so I might bump the Hexblade up to 3 or 4.

Including the mystic arcanum (5th level), what should the slot progression be like? Should I match the EK, then give the 5th level spell at 20? or should I lag slightly behind the EK, and give the arcanum at 18 or 19?

EK gets 13 base spells known+3 cantrips, to the Wizards 26 Base spells known+5 cantrips. Using the half-rounded-up rule, this would give Hexblade 8 spells known+2 cantrips, to the Warlocks 15+4 cantrips. That seems like an alright number to me, though it leaves very little room for playing around.

Lastly, cantrips known. They will only have 2 or 3 by the end (have not decided yet), when should they get them? 1 at 3rd, and another at 13th? then, if it is decided they need another, a third at 18 or 19?

I am mostly just spitballing with numbers here, but these numbers all seem reasonable enough to me. What do you all think?

 

[Ganymede81]

I would definitely model the Hexblade as Archetype after the Eldritch Knight.

The first task is to give the Hexblade one-third casting like the Eldritch Knight. The easiest way to do that would be to follow the exact same progression as the Warlock, but at one-third speed. This means that the Hexblade gets no Mystic Arcanum and only access to level four pact magic. It would also mean that they max out at two spell slots per rest at level 6.

There, the bulk of the archetype is done. No fuss, no muss.

The hard part is now creating class features. Incorporating a Patron isn't really necessary as we already have one: a sentient weapon. You could incorporate things like pact boons and invocations into the class, but why? The Eldritch Knight does not directly parrot Wizard features, so why should the Hexblade archetype parrot Warlock features? I think you'd be better off using the Hexblade patron's features as inspiration for modelling new powers in line with the Eldritch Knight.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

That's an awful lot of complexity to throw into an archetype. Couldn't you just add a Hex ability, recharging on a short rest, and maybe the shadow pet? I don't see the benefit of adding spell slots to this equation.

 

[Ganymede81]

One interesting way to help fill up the class features would be to allow the Hexblade to select from either Wave, Whelm, or Blackrazor (or something thematically similar and fluffed otherwise) as their patron, much like how a Totem Warrior Barbarian might choose a personal totem. Then their subsequent archetype abilities could be colored by this choice.