Holy sheepdip - wotc to republish old editions

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My guess is that if this Eberron subscription thing works well, they will try it with older edition material. I don't think this is what the community is looking for, mind you, but I think it's what's on their mind at the moment. Just my own speculation from having sat in the room taking notes.

I think you're right, although I guess it's possible that they could come up with some really clever subscription that would change my mind.

That said, since they built DDI unable to be used by Macs at launch -- because, you know, so many people are playing RPGs nowadays, they didn't need those customers' money -- I suspect whatever they come up with won't work on many tablets, which is just going to be an ever-larger portion of the computer-at-the-table machines.

 

[UnknownAtThisTime]

I was also at the seminar yesterday morning (extensive notes are here on my blog). My notes from this particular Q&A are as follows:

Must spread xp ....

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

There is an entire hobby segment dedicated to book-scanning, good sir!

These guys have turned non-destructive flat page scanning into an art and you can do it with junk you have lying around your house.

I looked at doing something like that but it would have been as much of a project just to build the scanner as to buy and sacrifice copies of the 1E PH and DMG and laboriously use my desktop printer to OCR them.

It still varies a great deal what any individual gamer actually wants to use the old materials for which determines what form/format they really want, including more than one. I wanted editable text to make new house-rule hardcopy rulebooks with, others just want the old adventures to RUN in their games so they can print even not-very-good quality PDF's. Others want original hardcopies in hand to add to a collection. Some want e-reader formats.

What I read is that they are, "exploring options to release old material digitally." That means whatever they want it to mean from selling the same PDF's they had before, to "renting" copies through DDI, to, "It still ain't EVER gonna happen." So, while I find this an interesting tidbit it doesn't MEAN anything yet.

 

[Umbran]

So, while I find this an interesting tidbit it doesn't MEAN anything yet.

It doesn't mean anything concrete, no. But it does mean the issue is on the radar. The very fact that they are considering something is more than many expected from them.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Renting older edition stuff is narmed.

I want to OWN. I need backups. I need lookups. I need file transfers, copies, hard drives, and accessibility on multiple devices. I do not need to pay WotC $10/month to keep a bookshelf there. I need to be able to pay them $10 to GET THE BOOK.

What I want is for it to be a better value than piracy currently is for many people. To be easy, painless, seamless, and cheap enough that a customer would prefer to just opt into the official legal version rather than trawling around in the dark corners of the internet for it.

If "renting" is the plan, I am not sure it will do well. It will certainly not do well with me.

 

[3catcircus]

However, they do realize that they've alienated a big chunk of the community, and they at least recognize the problem and want to work to mend the rift (a very tall order).

That boat has sailed - I don't think they'll ever regain those customers.

My guess is that if this Eberron subscription thing works well, they will try it with older edition material. I don't think this is what the community is looking for, mind you, but I think it's what's on their mind at the moment. Just my own speculation from having sat in the room taking notes.

I agree - this isn't what the community wants - but again - part of that is probably tied to the fact that they alienated a bunch of people who are now happily playing Pathfinder or previous editions of D&D.

The other factor is - when they were selling pdf products, the consumer knew that they'd have eternal access to it so long as they archived it and/or printed it out. The idea of having limited access (so long as you keep subscribing, we'll give you the privilege of looking at our shiny-shiny retread that we previously sold to you to keep) will most likely only appeal to people who already are committed DDI subscribers.

I'm envisioning WotC thinking that supplying subscription access to old stuff is going to want to draw in non-4e customers, but I think what will really happen is that only those already playing 4e will access the stuff and then try and adapt it for use with their 4e campaigns.

Perhaps I'm again being overly pessimistic about WotC's business sense conflicting with reality (the previous time being my comments about their plans for providing pdfs of 4e products via activation codes in the backs of hardcovers - and Rouse's thinking that I called him a liar - even though history has shown my prediction at the time to be closer to the truth than not), but my prediction this time is that providing subscription-based access to older editions won't appreciably grow their customer base.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I was happy to see THAC0 and negative armor classes go the way of the dinosaur. I think I'll stick with Pathfinder.

I heard that Pathfinder 2.0 is going to bring back THAC0.*

Renting older edition stuff is narmed.

*The little voices told me.

 

[merelycompetent]

I would expect the hobbyists to have developed some very neat solutions that require some rather specialized knowledge and fiddly-bits. Hobby-solutions are usually not *economical* ones. A business requires something they can hand to an intern and expect it to get done quickly and well.

I have *some*, now outdated (7-8 years ago) semi-pro knowledge of this due to my day job. Typically, businesses will contract the scanning out to pro shops, rather than hand it off to an intern. (Handing a potential money-maker, or project that you want to at least break even, to an intern is a good way to lose money.) The techniques and tech have advanced a *long* ways. Cost ranges from inexpensive ($200 for 200-250 page book, grayscale, text only, simple conversion to PDF) to specialized archival preservation quality (white cotton gloves, low-temp, moisture controlled, even exotic light wavelengths for oxygen- and normal light-sensitive documents, price gets into five figures plus). This is by my memory of researching and contract negotiations from 7+ years ago. YMMV.

A quick Google Fu session on "book scanning services" indicates that the tech has advanced even further, with a matching drop in prices. Scanning the material in now, without damaging the source, will generate good quality output in a variety of formats.

As you said, economical conversion to e-formats will still determine the final outcome - IF WotC goes forward with this. However, it is not as expensive as most people think. Less so now.

Couple of sample links, for those interested:
Blue Leaf Book Scanning Service | Low Cost Book Scanning

| Book Scanning | Document Imaging and Scanning Service
(their pricing is more in line with what I recall)

Bound Book Scanning
(other pages on this site indicate that they can get pretty high-res, 300+dpi. far exceeds what I recall.)

I think the real determining factor for success/failure will be in presentation & features. Along the lines of, if I can't add my own notes to it, why bother?

 

[merelycompetent]

It doesn't mean anything concrete, no. But it does mean the issue is on the radar. The very fact that they are considering something is more than many expected from them.

Very true. PDFs (or equivalent) that I can add my own notes to and backup to my emergency site, priced at $5-7 a pop? I'd buy the 1E DMG to test it out. If it worked as expected and product quality was legible, I'd drop a couple hundred $ that weekend for legit ebooks. Even in this economy. IOW, by price estimates, I alone would cover the cost of multiple hardback scans & edits.

Knowing my gaming group, I'd have company in my purchasing.

Still taking a wait and see approach.

 

[Umbran]

I have *some*, now outdated (7-8 years ago) semi-pro knowledge of this due to my day job. Typically, businesses will contract the scanning out to pro shops, rather than hand it off to an intern. (Handing a potential money-maker, or project that you want to at least break even, to an intern is a good way to lose money.)

My recollection (which may be faulty, I admit) is that WotC specifically talked about doing the scanning in-house when they were offering the pdfs before. Maybe they'll do things differently, maybe not.

Which is neither here nor there - my point was that they'd probably not use hobbyist methods.