Holy Symbols: are they God-specific? Can they be altered?

[Ruin Explorer]

But of course!

I'd definitely say verisilmarillion verdigris vortigern verisimilitude is strictly a matter of taste, and thus not really worth arguing about.

Personally, I like both fun and [the V word]. But when one gets in the way of the other, my own personal idiosyncratic notion of fun tends to win out.

I'm not arguing

I'm just pointing it out. My players would have LESS fun if they only found magic items they wanted. They even have an elaborate plan to ensure they're able to properly convert the magic items they find into ones they actually want (so they tell me!). Personally I've never known them to get in the way of each other. I'd be surprised if you could tell me a true story from your gaming days where they did, even.

 

[Arbitrary]

If you are adding in items the players will not and cannot use then they really aren't magic items. They are cash loot.

 

[evileeyore]

I solved this problem by dropping Holy Symbols entirely and replacing them with Holy Relics.

Holy Relics are objects (sometimes dedicated to one particular diety via art) imbued with the power of the Divine. Where they came from differs from one Relic to the next. Some are bits and pieces of Temples or Shrines that were destroyed years passed, some bits and pieces of Adventurers that died long ago...

Most Relics aren't earmarked for any particular Diety, they just act as a means to make contact. Some (the more powerful ones) are Diety or Pantheon specific.




Was planning to have the group I DM for (if I ever run 4e) get their first Holy Relic in the form of tooth necklace (Saint's teeth strung together)... a Gnoll tooth necklace.

 

[Wormwood]

If you are adding in items the players will not and cannot use then they really aren't magic items. They are cash loot.

Vendor trash, my players call them.

 

[Audrik]

The way I'm handling it with my group is to treat the items as augmentations rather than actual holy symbols; sort of like gem sockets in Diablo II, WoW, Age of Conan, etc ... Let the cleric/paladin kill a priest of whichever diety he or she chooses, pop out the magical augmentation and switch it with the one in his or her own symbol.

That way, the symbols stay dedicated to their respective gods without reconsecration or morphing, and the PC cleric/paladin still gets just as much use out of his or her share of the loot. You've just got to make sure the player understands the holy symbol can only have one augmentation at any given time.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Most Relics aren't earmarked for any particular Diety, they just act as a means to make contact.

It's a transmitter! It's a radio for speaking to God!

-Hyp.

 

[Lurker37]

I told my group that they could customize a holy symbol with a ritual that cost 50 gp and took one hour.

I hope you added 50 gp to a treasure package to compensate the group for that. The PCs never, ever have to pay to make any other magical item useable. To charge a fee for holy symbols without giving them extra money to pay that fee would be cruel and vindictive IMO. (If you're worried about whether they will convert the symbol, then add the 50g to a treasure package received after they do so.)

The group i'm DMing will find this item very soon and since i did change the cleric of Bahamut to Melora, i was thinking on how to have the cleric use the symbol.

By RAW, you should be replacing any found loot in published modules with loot the party can use anyway. So if that symbol wasn't being used by a cleric of Bahamut (in which case why did the PCs kill them?), then it should simply be a symbol of Melora when the party finds it.

After all, what hurts versimilitude more: The party finding a useable symbol (the gods do still watch, the just act subtley!) or mighty morphing holy symbols? If the latter bothers you, then save rededication of holy symbols for quests etc.

E.G. THE BBEG is an evil cleric. The local temple offers a reward for BBEG's death: bring back his (un)holy symbol, and the temple will reconsecrate it into a symbol of the cleric PC's deity. That makes the symbol a quest reward.

Bottom line: The party are trying to rededicate the holy symbol because the DM chose not to follow the guidleines for magical treasure. It is therefore the DM's responsibility to make sure that the party is not disadvantaged by the method of rededication.

 

[Keenath]

Vendor trash, my players call them.

Hehe. Yeah, it was that way in 3rd edition... like low-quality items (or useless-to-you soulbound stuff) in WoW, they're only valuable for the sale price you can get.

Actually, 4e seems like it doesn't have that issue. If you don't need a given item, you can always disenchant it for residuum. It's maybe the same thing in essence as vendor trash, but at least you don't actually have to find a vendor, and residuum can be used for enchanting a new item as well as rituals or buying stuff.

 

[Keenath]

I hope you added 50 gp to a treasure package to compensate the group for that. The PCs never, ever have to pay to make any other magical item useable. To charge a fee for holy symbols without giving them extra money to pay that fee would be cruel and vindictive IMO.

Huh? It's no more nor less vindictive than giving them a giant-sized suit of armor and expecting they'll need to use Enchant Item to resize it...

Though maybe you meant it shouldn't have any component cost, but it's okay if the ritual itself costs money to learn? That's why I'd make it a subfunction of Enchant Item -- they'll probably be learning that one anyway, and it WOULD be cruel to require clerics to buy a whole separate ritual for the sole purpose of reshaping holy symbols. It's still not the best for Pallys, but they have relatively few Implement powers anyway and probably want a magic weapon more than a symbol.

 

[Drunken Master]

I think it's perfectly reasonable that a cleric can channel the power of his deity to re-shape a holy symbol through prayer and ritual (at zero cost to the cleric). Alternatively, perhaps the deity's symbol can manifest (with a sweet divine light show, naturally) over a generic medallion-type holy symbol when its power is called upon.

When my wife's cleric of Sune finds a +3 holy symbol of Shar or something, of course she should have the chance to re-consecrate the symbol and use it for good. There's nothing a god likes better than increasing its own power while at the same time reducing the influence of a rival.