Holy Symbols: are they God-specific? Can they be altered?

[Wisdom Penalty]

someone put a "Holy Conversion" ritual into the EN Wiki. it was one of the first things. seems a great use for a Ritual and, since im of a mind we need more Rituals, that'd be the route id suggest you use.

Wis

 

[Regicide]

Yeah, just splash some holy water on it and that swastika is a perfectly usable cross.

 

[Silvergriffon]

For what its worth, here's the solution I have been toying with:

Basic Holy Symbols (mundane, +1, +2 etc.) are deity specific.

Special Holy Symbols (Symbol of Life, Symbol of Battle, etc.) are actually shaped as glyphs representing the appropriate word in an ancient divine language that predates the gods themselves. One that even they do not speak. Any cleric can use one of these.

 

[Silvergriffon]

Yeah, just splash some holy water on it and that swastika is a perfectly usable cross.

You will also need pliers and possibly some super glue.
Or duct tape.

 

[scholz]

My original campaign idea actually solves this problem. In my game most clerics do not have a patron god. They "worship" and tend the shrines of numerous "lost gods" - Good, Evil, whatever. Even the Patron god would only be invoked when appropriate " You don't invoke Bahamut to bless your grave robbery."
So any magic holy symbol could be used by any cleric even if it was a god the cleric was not particularly fond of.

 

[silentounce]

Yeah, just splash some holy water on it and that swastika is a perfectly usable cross.

Actually, it's easier than that. You don't have to do anything at all to it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Abrahamic_religions

Perhaps you should have used a different symbol for your comment, something that hasn't been around for millennia, isn't used in hundreds of belief systems, and isn't inherently evil.

 

[KarinsDad]

I hope you added 50 gp to a treasure package to compensate the group for that. The PCs never, ever have to pay to make any other magical item useable. To charge a fee for holy symbols without giving them extra money to pay that fee would be cruel and vindictive IMO. (If you're worried about whether they will convert the symbol, then add the 50g to a treasure package received after they do so.)

Cruel and vindictive???

Cut us a break. 50 GP is not squat in DND terms. They'll eventually have millions of GP. Freaking entitlement arguments.

By RAW, you should be replacing any found loot in published modules with loot the party can use anyway. So if that symbol wasn't being used by a cleric of Bahamut (in which case why did the PCs kill them?), then it should simply be a symbol of Melora when the party finds it.

That's not a rule. That's a suggestion. Players are not entitled to always finding stuff they can use.

It's total group preference and that is 100% in the "what's best for our group" camp, not the rules camp.

After all, what hurts versimilitude more: The party finding a useable symbol (the gods do still watch, the just act subtley!) or mighty morphing holy symbols?

After all, what hurts verisimilitude more: The party can use all stuff they find, or the party can use most stuff they find.

 

[Regicide]

Actually, it's easier than that. You don't have to do anything at all to it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Abrahamic_religions

Perhaps you should have used a different symbol for your comment, something that hasn't been around for millennia, isn't used in hundreds of belief systems, and isn't inherently evil.

Wow... Just... wow. So, you're saying your expectation, if you go to your local Christian church and ask the priest to use a swastika in his service, he won't have any problem with it at all?

My expectation is he'll politely say no and try to get you into counseling. And he worships a god that doesn't smite worshipers for heresy (any more.)

 

[Ginnel]

I hope you added 50 gp to a treasure package to compensate the group for that. The PCs never, ever have to pay to make any other magical item useable. To charge a fee for holy symbols without giving them extra money to pay that fee would be cruel and vindictive IMO. (If you're worried about whether they will convert the symbol, then add the 50g to a treasure package received after they do so.)

You see I thought this was the right way of doing it with no fee or a compensation in the treasure too until I realised well, no its not its wrong.

A spear fighter will not be able to use all his spear related powers and feats with anything but a spear type weapon, An Orb wizard will not be able to use his Orb mastery with a wand or staff, these would have to be sold for 1/5 value and then enchant their current one.

I think a valid option would be to swap an enchantment from one item to another of the same type for 5-10% of the items value in a ritual

 

[Drkfathr1]

For what its worth, here's the solution I have been toying with:

Basic Holy Symbols (mundane, +1, +2 etc.) are deity specific.

Special Holy Symbols (Symbol of Life, Symbol of Battle, etc.) are actually shaped as glyphs representing the appropriate word in an ancient divine language that predates the gods themselves. One that even they do not speak. Any cleric can use one of these.

This.

Works really well in 4E too, since the alphabet for Supernal is supposed to be Hieroglyphics.