Holy Symbols: are they God-specific? Can they be altered?

[Xzylvador]

While a reasonable solution, this does make it somewhat unbalanced opposed to martial classes (who can use any +1 weapon they find) and arcane classes (who can yse any +1 rod/wand/orb/staff)... Unless your cleric only faces enemies who worship the same gods... who wouldn't be enemies then.

 

[Arakim]

While a reasonable solution, this does make it somewhat unbalanced opposed to martial classes (who can use any +1 weapon they find) and arcane classes (who can yse any +1 rod/wand/orb/staff)... Unless your cleric only faces enemies who worship the same gods... who wouldn't be enemies then.

It's been while since I read the series, so bear with me.

In the Dragonlance original series a Cleric of Mishikal created a Symbol of Paladine for some future cleric.

I would say that simple bonus Symbols turn to the Cleric's / Paladin's Deity when touched with their old Holy Symbol.

If it only takes a short rest for the fighter to find out he's wielding a Vorpal weapon, then it should take about that much time to change a Holy Symbol.

That being said, a +5 Unholy Symbol of Orcus that does negative energy drain or some such would never change over for a Cleric / Paladin of Pelor.

 

[KarinsDad]

Actually, the rules seem to indicate that Holy Symbols are not useable by followers of other religions (page 56):

Many divine prayers use holy symbols as implements. To grant its benefit to a divine character, a holy symbol must represent the character's patron deity or one of a group of deities the character serves.

Obviously, many found Holy Symbols would not meet this criteria.

I suspect that the designers intended to allow them to be altered, but since they did not add in such a rule or ritual, such an item at best would have to be converted to residuum at 20% of worth.

Personally, I would make a ritual that reconsecrated an Unholy Symbol into a Holy Symbol a more lengthy process than most rituals. After all, a captured PC Cleric would not want it to be easy for his Holy Symbol to be altered either. At least 8 hours, maybe more.

 

[Dausuul]

My solution is to make them pantheon-specific instead of deity-specific. I have four pantheons in my campaign world, one of which is Evil and unlikely to have PC clerics.

Of course, the party in that game currently consists of a warlord, a rogue, a wizard, and a fighter, so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[Andor]

We searched around and couldn't find anywhere that said the form of a holy symbol matters, so I'll be using it. The GM rule it was ok as long as the deities aren't diametrically opposed, and that it could be altered using the Enchant Item ritual (similar to resizing armor).

PHB pg 56. "To grant it's benefit to a divine character, a holy symbol must represent the character's patron deity or one of a group of of deitys the character serves."

So yeah there is a rule about it, but I think all of the suggestions here are valid. It would be a real shot in the 'nads to clerics if they were the only class that couldn't loot the badguys.

 

[Arbitrary]

The DM is never supposed to include loot that the party cannot use so it it is, although very awkwardly, covered by the rules.

I changed it around too because I thought it was silly that every holy symbol the party ever finds as loot would be deity correct~

 

[questing gm]

The title says it. My party came across a +1 "Symbol of Battle" that was listed a paragraph above as a holy symbol of a particular deity (some of you can guess the source of this treasure, no spoilers intended). My question is simply can it be altered to represent the party cleric's own deity? It seems unfair that not only do clerics/pallies have to settle for 1/8 of class-specific treasure, but then that share is subdivided into 10 or so main deities and a bunch of minor ones.

I tried to dive into the basic PHB and DMG texts, but found nothing that would help. I can home brew a ritual to alter the symbol, but was hoping there was already something in place first. I figure I'd list the cost as 1/3 the symbol's value. It's a great magic item for a low level cleric, so I'm sure the party would be happy to part with the gold, but if they don't need to do so per the RAW text, I'm okay with that.

Thanks in advance!

I have a few suggestions to chime in but after reading your OP and the answers that followed, I'm suspecting that I'll be talking out of context.

So, to not make a fool out of myself, could you mention where was said treasure found (in a spoiler tag, of course)?

 

[Keenath]

I just can't get behind allowing holy symbols to reshape automatically (or with a short rest or whatever). But at the same time I don't want to say you have to find a specific god's symbol when you can pick up any old sword or wand and use it freely.

Enchant Magic Item can clearly change the physical shape of things, since it can resize armor, so that's what I'd go with. It's a good middle ground between "you can use any random symbol you find" and "you can't use this awesome item because it says BANE on the front".

Does anyone see an issue with using the EMI ritual to do this? (Note that there's no gold outlay for this function -- the component cost for EMI is based on the cost of the item you're making; if you aren't making an item, there's no cost. You have to buy the ritual or a scroll, but that shouldn't be onerous.)

 

[Cadfan]

I told my group that they could customize a holy symbol with a ritual that cost 50 gp and took one hour.

 

[Palladion]

Generally, monsters do not have magical treasure as part of their equipment, so many (to most) holy symbols found by the party will not be in use by the monster you kill, but within a pile of treasure claimed from its possession (maybe a trophy of some sort).

Regardless, since clerics have Ritual Casting, consider giving them Consecrate Holy Symbol or something as a bonus ritual. Paladins on the other hand...