D&D 5E [Homebrew] − Elf Ability Scores

Gadget

Adventurer
I have always thought that a bonus to charisma for Elves was more suitable for the 'innate magical nature' of the race. It was only Intelligence due to AD&D history of that being "The Arcane Spell casting stat" and spell book toting wizards the only arcane class, that intelligence took hold. Now that we have sorcerers (though I admittedly don't see a sub-class here that fits most elves, maybe the chaos one if you squint), bards and feylocks that all key off of charisma, this makes much more sense.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Yaarel

He Mage
I think much of the real world lore that you've associated with D&D elves would probably actually be outright fey in D&D terms rather than the more material elf.

It occurs to me, D&D got the terminology somewhat backward.

What Shakespeare calls a ‘fairy’ (childlike, dancing, arrow-shooting, land spirit) is what D&D calls an ‘elf’.

Oppositely, what the Medieval world calls an ‘elf’ (serious adult, otherworldly, personification of magic) is what D&D calls a ‘fey’.

Properly, the ‘Elf’ is the one that is less mundane (less earthly) and more otherworldy (more magical).
 
Last edited:

Yaarel

He Mage
For my homebrew world, I explore the following.

I see the main division of the Elf as:
• Bright Elf, angelic, celestial, luminous, sagely, with foresight, who empowers humans
• Murk Elf, beastly, underground, dark-dwelling, ignorant, with caprice, who undermines humans

The term ‘bright’ connotes luminosity, appealing beauty, and intelligence. The term ‘murk’ connotes the opposite, but is dwelling in darkness, not necessarily a dark pigmentation itself.

Both are spirits. In fact, both are spiritual echoes human actions. When humans do physical actions that are positive, then their behavior forms forces, patterns, and trends that shape Elves of positive energy. Oppositely, when humans do physical actions that are negative, then the behavior shapes Elves of negative void.

Essentially, this is a single kind of Elf who is Unaligned, but who mirrors human behavior, or more precisely, is the consequence of human behavior. Thus the Elf can behave as if virtually Good or as if virtually Evil, or gradations in between, depending on human activity. Of course, normally, most humans are a mix of positive and negative actions, so there are a mix of both Good-ish Bright Elves and Evil-ish Murk Elves. There are also more Neutral-ish, intermediary elves, who transition between the two Elf forms.

All Elves inhabit the spirit realm (≈ D&D ethereal plane). The spirit realm exists at different frequencies, sotospeak. Closer to positive energy, the spirit realm is vibrant and flourishing (≈ D&D Feywild). Closer to negative void, the spirit realm is gloomy and deathly (≈ D&D Shadowfell). Positive Elves and negative Elves exist at these different frequencies, respectively. Intermediary transitional Elves are more neutral, reflecting the mundane material world more closely, with less positive transfiguration and less negative transmogrification (≈ ‘shallow’ ethereal plane). The communities of the Bright Elf have little or no contact with the communities of Murk Elf, and viceversa. Similarly, Neutral-ish Elves are generally independent. But all Elf communities can see the human communities, are connected to individual human presences, and are hypersensitive to them. Generally, an individual Elf connects with a group of humans, especially a specific relationship between two to ten individual humans, whether positive or negative. Across time, the elven affinity often transfers across members of a human family.

There is only one kind of Unaligned Elf, but the physical appearance of this Elf shifts, when the human actions shift. Sometimes, an individual Elf is shifting back and forth between a positive form, a neutral form, and a negative form, depending on the actions of the humans that the Elf connects with. A shift, if any, tends to be subtle and monthly. Occasionally a transformation is dramatic. If moving from negativity toward neutrality, the negative beastly form shifts toward a more human looking with only subtle animal features. Moving further toward positivity, the Elf becomes fully human in appearance, but more angelic, radiating with a supernatural beauty that is actually luminous. The reverse is the case if moving from positivity to negativity. The angelic luminosity dims, becoming plainer, while animal features become increasingly prominent until grotesque. The animal features are especially bovid (cattle, sheep, goat, waterbuffalo, oryx, etcetera), thus sporting pointy ears, or perhaps small horns, or a tail, or so on. Perhaps alternative animalistic features may be possible (wolf fangs, butterfly wings, etcetera). The Elf never looks completely human, and is always with some angelic feature, beastly feature, or some combination of the two, even if subtle.


Heh, so the negative Elf becomes a kind of ‘sheeple’, sotospeak, seemingly dim-witted. Not necessarily unintelligent, but increasingly problematic socially and ethically, behaving in inappropriate ways, that inevitably make things worse for the humans. Altho some Murk Elves can seem as if unresponsive, they can erupt into terrifying ferocity. Generally, the Murk Elf is capricious, sometimes playful at inappropriate times, sometimes psychopathically murderous, but always for the purpose of corrupting the human.

Positivity (flourishing) correlates with the Good alignment, and negativity (destruction) with the Evil alignment. Nevertheless, the Bright can be misused for an Evil purpose, and the Murk can be used for a Good purpose, so there are important exceptions.

Humans experience the subtle influences of elven spiritual presences, but they rarely encounter elves directly. But it can happen. Elves can cross thresholds to materialize into the world of humans. Or conversely, humans can spiritualize into the worlds of elves.
 
Last edited:

I have always thought that a bonus to charisma for Elves was more suitable for the 'innate magical nature' of the race. It was only Intelligence due to AD&D history of that being "The Arcane Spell casting stat" and spell book toting wizards the only arcane class, that intelligence took hold. Now that we have sorcerers (though I admittedly don't see a sub-class here that fits most elves, maybe the chaos one if you squint), bards and feylocks that all key off of charisma, this makes much more sense.

In another thread recently, I mentioned that I was thinking about splitting the 5e "High Elf" back into its original 1e High and Grey components (which, as the PHB mentions, is a split seen across many campaign settings). The current High Elf would be renamed to Grey Elf and remain the same (as 1e Grey Elves were given a boost to Intelligence), while a creating a new High Elf subrace which would get Charisma bonus instead of the Intelligence bonus (as High Elves have always been the more outgoing of the two subraces). This might step a bit on the toes of the drow, but then again, it would allow those who would want to play an elf with a Charisma based class to have more of a choice. The cantrip that current High Elves get would need to be retooled as a Sorcerer cantrip based on Charisma, or be replaced with something else entirely...
 

Yaarel

He Mage
In another thread recently, I mentioned that I was thinking about splitting the 5e "High Elf" back into its original 1e High and Grey components (which, as the PHB mentions, is a split seen across many campaign settings). The current High Elf would be renamed to Grey Elf and remain the same (as 1e Grey Elves were given a boost to Intelligence), while a creating a new High Elf subrace which would get Charisma bonus instead of the Intelligence bonus (as High Elves have always been the more outgoing of the two subraces). This might step a bit on the toes of the drow, but then again, it would allow those who would want to play an elf with a Charisma based class to have more of a choice. The cantrip that current High Elves get would need to be retooled as a Sorcerer cantrip based on Charisma, or be replaced with something else entirely...

Your setup works well for the Greyhawk campaign setting.

• Faerie Elf (gold hair, amethyst eyes): Charisma, Intelligence
• Grey Elf (white hair, gold eyes): Dexterity, Intelligence

• High Elf (emerald eyes): Charisma, Dexterity

• Wood Elf (tree-color hair and eyes): Dexterity, Wisdom
• Grugach Elf: Strength, Dexterity

• Drow Elf (white hair), corrupted Grey, High, and Wood Elves:
Dexterity, plus Intelligence, Charisma, or Wisdom



For a Greyhawk setting, it might be possible to make all elves Dexterity score +2, plus one other ability score +1. But Charisma works better for Elf thematics, so I want to see at least some of them have access to Charisma +2. So, the High Elf and the Faerie Elf are both Charisma +2, but differ in regard to the +1 going to Dexterity or Intelligence.

In the 1e Unearthed Arcana, the abortive attempt at a Comeliness ability, was split away from Charisma. Nevertheless, its racial adjustments correlate to the ‘visually appealing artistic style’ of the various kinds of Elf, so in 5e they translate back into Charisma. As such, the Grey Elf (perhaps specifically the Faerie Elf) and the High Elf both enjoy superhuman Charisma +2.
 
Last edited:

Yaarel

He Mage
Regarding the D&D traditions in a broad sense, it seems,

‘Elf’, ‘Fey’, and ‘Eladrin’ are all simply Elf.

‘Elf’ is the term that humans in the Material plane use to refer to them. ‘Fey’ is simply short for ‘Fey-court Elf’, namely the elven government councils that exist in the Feywild plane. An ‘Archfey’ is one of the councilors in one of these Fey courts. ‘Eladrin’ is simply short for ‘Eladrin-court Elf’, namely the elven government councils that exist in a domain of the Astral plane.

But they are all an Elf.
 

hastur_nz

First Post
D&D has messed around with what an Elf is, vs a Fey, vs an Eladrin. Some of it started with 2E (Planescape), then 3.x changed some of that. Then 4E definitely changed it again (Eladrin were 'original' elves from the Feywild, where other Fey lived including the Faerie Court, whereas Elves were Eladrin that first came to the Material Plane and evolved/devolved). Different game Settings also changed some stuff, in terms of back-story, word view, etc. e.g. the Elf of Dark Sun was definitely quite different.

Now 5e, like most things, tries to accommodate all this historical mess and straddle a middle of the road, all inclusive kind of thing; from memory, the 4e view is pretty much it.

So trying to say what D&D calls something Elfish, is pretty much futile - if you use a published setting, you should have some idea of what their Elves etc are like, and re-flavour/re-stat to suit. If you are doing home-brew, decide what an Elf is to you and run with it. There's no right or wrong answer.

Personally I used to quite like the Greyhawk elves, although it was probably mostly because it was pretty much the Tolkien types and you could easily use a kind of Silmarillion-esque back-story of how the Elves used to be like super-humans, but have now been marginalised, lost a lot of their magic etc - it supported Int for elves that were super-magical, Dex for the more 'forest' elves, etc. Pretty much the same as Forgotten Realms seemed to use, IIRC, in fact there the Tolkien rip-off was even more blatant they were all leaving for the west...

There's nothing wrong with changing Int to Cha for the 'magical' elves, if you're happy that their back-story involves more 'innate' than 'learned' magic, as long as that's your world's back-story (e.g. in Greyhawk, and FR IIRC, the Elven Wizards taught magic to humans).
 

Yaarel

He Mage
I am currently reading a medieval Aramaic manuscript from around 1300. It mentions nature spirits. It has surprising overlaps with Norse concepts of the Alfr and Jotnar around the same time.

By extension.

Elves inhabit the spirit world. (Namely, the Ethereal Plane, including Positive-energy-perfused Feywild and Negative-void-sapped Shadowfell.)

Even from the spirit world, Elves can interact with humans, especially while humans are sleeping and dreaming. Then the spirit of the humans is less bound by the physical body. Sleep is understood as death to some degree. Dream encounters with Elves are trippy, like dreams are, but can be vivid and meaningful. Individual humans with second-sight can sense Elves even while awake.

Elves normally reproduce by ‘mating’ with a human while the human is dreaming. In other words, a wet dream can give birth to a new Elf.

An Elf is on the darkside of the spectrum toward the Negative void, as a Murk Elf, and tends toward hostility against the human. But positive human relationships with other humans, can shift the Elf more toward the lightside of the spectrum, more toward an angelic form, as a Bright Elf.

The Elf (or Jotnar/Troll) that mates is called a Mara. (Which is where the term ‘nightmare’ comes from, which has nothing to do with with horses, etymologically.)
 
Last edited:

Yaarel

He Mage
Eladrin are Elves. Think of the ‘Eladrin’ as short for ‘Eladrin-Court Elves’.

Tulani = Grey Elf
Firre = Half Elf
Ghaele = High Elf
Shiere = Wood Elf
Bralani = Wild Elf
Noviere = Aquatic Elf
Coure ... what a happy Drow Elf could look like



Think of Eladrin names, like ‘Tulani’, ‘Ghaele’, etcetera, as Elf political *titles*, equivalent to titles such as ‘President’, ‘Governor’, ‘Mayor’, etcetera.



The Eladrin tradition enters D&D in 2e: Monstrous Compendium 2.

The descriptions explicitly compare Eladrin to specific Elf subraces, albeit in an ad hoc inconsistent manner. The Elf-Eladrin correspondences are clear. Notice the prominence of Charisma for most of Elf subraces, especially Grey Elf, High Elf, and Half Elf, but also Aquatic Elf. Wood Elf and Wild Elf are non-charismatic.

The Eladrin stats are distorted by ranks and levels, but the salient ability scores generally shine thru.



2e Monstrous Compendium 2

Tulani Eladrin, ≈ Faerie Lord, ≈ [Gray] Elf:
• Charisma Rulers, Unearthly Beauty, Voices of Living Music, Faces Shine Brightly, Dont Tolerate Disrespect, Gracious With Guests, Stately
• Int 19-20 Supragenius
• Str 20 But No Need for Weapon or Armor
• Wis Priest [Healer But Now Note 5e Bard as the Healer with Cha instead of Wis]
• Note Positive Energy, Luminosity, Fly At Will 30, Height 7

Firre Eladrin, ≈ Half-Elf:
• Cha Bard Art Music Magic, Living Image of Wonder and Delight
• Str 18/00
• Int 18
• Con Stocky

Ghaele Eladrin, ≈ High Elf:
• Cha Adviser, Offer Guidance, Muster [Political] Resistance
• Int 18
• Wis Compassionate [Empathy, Insight]

Shiere Eladrin, ≈ [Wood] Elf:
• Dex Graceful Knight
• Str Strong as Mightiest Mortal Warrior
• Int 11-16

Bralani Eladrin, ≈ Wild Elf, Wildest, Most Feral
• Dex Great Dexterity
• Str 18/76
• Int 13-14
• Con Stocky

Noviere Eladrin, ≈ Aquatic Elf, ≈ Nixie Sprite:
• Cha Most Social of Eladrin, Approachable
• Str 18/01
• Wis Straightforward, [Sane]
• Int 13-14

Coure Eladrin, ≈ Small Winged Sprite, [Nocturnal], ≈ [To Substitute Exiled Drow Dark Elf]:
• Dex [Rogue], Mischief, Dance, [Flitting About]
• Cha Song, Humor, Energy, Jest
• Int 11-12
• Con Penalty Tiny Slender
• Str Penalty Avoid Physical Confrontation
 
Last edited:

Hillsy7

First Post
Elf strongly associates with Charisma (Half Elf Charisma, Fey themes, charm, artistic style, innate magic, etcetera).

While you're perfectly entitled to houserule and homebrew to your hearts content....it is a deviation from the PHB assessment of Elves.

Elves (high and wood specifically) are not charming beings. Yes, they are physically alluring (The PHB states Slender and 'Graceful' - which sounds like a catch-all for 'pretty') and they love "good" things (the PHB says Nature, magic, art, music, poetry), but nothing of that has anything to do with interaction - only what people see. Nearly everything in the PHB points to an insular, arrogant, or somewhat alien approach to society (one of the defining features of both the PHB and Tolkein Elves is how much their long life warps their view of morality and empathy, two important factors for Charismatic people). Look at the quotes from the PHB:

"Elves can live well over 700 years, giving them a broad perspective on events that might trouble the shorter-lived races."
"They tend to remain aloof and unfazed by petty happenstance."
"They are slow to make friends and enemies."
"They reply to petty insults with distain."
"They have been known to retreat from intrusions into their woodland homes, confident they can wait out the invaders."
"Their contact with outsiders is usually limited."
"They dislike the pace of human society."

Those quote above don't apply themselves very well to the 4 charisma skills: Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Performance. Contrast and compare with the Tieflng PHB entry which contains:

"Tieflings subsist in small minorities mostly found in human cities or towns, often in the roughest quarters of those places, where they grow up to be swindlers, thieves or crime lords."
"After dealing with this mistrust throughout youth, a tiefling often develops the ability to overcome prejudice through charm or intimidation"

Now this feels like a race that exists by wriggling into society and manipulating it. The Lightfoot Halflings even state explicitly that they are can take up lives living alongside, alongside their typical affable, kind, and curious Halflingness....

The fey heritage and Charm immunity is because they live so long and have such a strong sense of self. The half-elf Charisma bump is there because they have all the fey appearance of an elf, but have a human outlook on society - their dual heritage shakes off all the issues with being elven. I suspect the Drow lean towards the powerful sociopath who needs host-society to manipulate and subjugate.


So yes, by all means create your own race/subrace that is more enthralling (literally) fae than Tolkein Gladriel, sure. Excellent - a high Charisma race built around a sort of supernatural otherworldliness - kinda like faerie vampires - would be cool. However, I don't think trying to tag that only the existing Elf race is reflective of the PHB/Tolkein elves.
 

Remove ads

Top