Horizon Walker Terrain Mastery: Arcane

[Velmont]

I've been looking at that today, when Vanitri came first in teh RDI. I found the Terrain a bit strionger and confusing than teh suasl terrain, here my suggestion:

A terrain have generally two bonus, one that is comparable to a feta, teh sceond who gives +1 bonus against one type of creature that live in the terrain.

The three inate spell is comparable to some feat in Complete Arcana. That's fine.

+1 against arcana creature. What are these creature? Your description is too unclear. Ok, it isn't dragon... make it clearer. I would go for a more simple definition: Summoned creatures and constructs. That shoudl include all that come from directly form arcane spellcaster (without including spellcasters themsleves).

Clas skill: Not a big deal, but I find with that, the terrain become a bit more powerfull. I don't mind if it stay, but having a choice, I would go without them.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I've been looking at that today, when Vanitri came first in teh RDI. I found the Terrain a bit strionger and confusing than teh suasl terrain, here my suggestion:

A terrain have generally two bonus, one that is comparable to a feta, teh sceond who gives +1 bonus against one type of creature that live in the terrain.

The three inate spell is comparable to some feat in Complete Arcana. That's fine.

+1 against arcana creature. What are these creature? Your description is too unclear. Ok, it isn't dragon... make it clearer. I would go for a more simple definition: Summoned creatures and constructs. That shoudl include all that come from directly form arcane spellcaster (without including spellcasters themsleves).

Clas skill: Not a big deal, but I find with that, the terrain become a bit more powerfull. I don't mind if it stay, but having a choice, I would go without them.

The terrains are always more powerful than a feat, down to the last one. They either give a +4 stackable bonus to among the most useful skills for a Range/Rogue (arguably the weakest terrains other than the new one, but still substantially better than Skill Focus, and stacks with it), or the more-useful Darkvision and Immunity to Fatigue. This new one is definitely the weakest of the terrains, in my opinion. It has the specific abilities I gave it mainly to mimic the effects of Academy training--as such, it could also to be considered to be an RP-appropriate award. I know from asking that GMs are allowed to include as treasure any sort of item they like, so I suppose I could also always just give an item that does this, but it seemed most appropriate.

 

[Rystil Arden]

To clarify, I'll say I tend to agree with KO that the benefit other than the combat one is the weakest of all terrain benefits. The combat part (with the terminology as defined in post 1) is probably slightly more useful, though that depends drastically on the GM and the adventure. All in all, it is definitely in line (in my opinion) with the other terrain benefits (if not still among the weakest--I would never even think about taking it before Underground or Desert for an instant except for RP reasons), and it isn't like the Horizon Walker sees much use in the character optimisation boards

 

[LiquidBlue]

I am sorry to argue a flavor issue. In fact, Mechanicly I believe the mastery works okay. The spell-like abilities are okay. The creatures against which the combat bonus works needs to be fomularized, if not magical beasts, then Velmont's proposed summoned creatures and constructs works. I have no opinion about the addition of skills. (BTW I have never seen racial substition levels used. You live and learn.)

Again, even to me it seems silly to argue a flavor issue. Especially since as flavor, a character can interpret and present it pretty much any way they desire. But, the proposed flavor does not seem fit into the class theme.

Every other terrain and planar terrain mastery references some sort of (naturally occuring) terrain. Ancient ruins, floating crystalline beacons left behind by forgotten wizards, null void spheres where energy is sucked into a vortex by an ancient magic, etc. are all artifacts. They are not areas that will be shaded on a map with referenced by the key, or planar traits.

That is the reason that I argue for a terrain. Vanitri gained is knowledge at an academy, that seems fine. His knowledge will help him survive in magical terrain.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The creatures against which the combat bonus works needs to be fomularized

I proposed that it is currently equally formalised compared to the other terrain masteries. Check them out--they don't give one creature type, they give a terrain type. In general, deciding on whether the terrain bonus applies will be a GM judgment call (see my goblin example for the forest terrain). This is true for the arcane terrain bonus as well. As described, it works on creations of magic, either created by a Wizard or spontaneously generated by magic--most constructs, many undead, some elementals and fey, and a few magical beasts and aberrations that have specific flavour text indicating that they were created as the result of magic gone awry or the like. All in all, like with most of the terrains, these things are likely to be encountered together in short spurts (for instance, in my Immortality Awakens game in the desert, there will be many desert terrain monsters in short spurts, and in an underground game, there will be many underground monsters--in fact very many monsters live underground, making that terrain even more appetising).

Again, even to me it seems silly to argue a flavor issue. Especially since as flavor, a character can interpret and present it pretty much any way they desire. But, the proposed flavor does not seem fit into the class theme.

I think you're getting stuck on the word 'natural'. Remember that the Horizon Walker even eventually visits the planes and breaks the normal laws of nature (Dimension Door once per 1d4 rounds, for instance). This Terrain Benefit is not for natural terrain--it is specifically for arcane and unnatural terrain. I argue that in a world infused with magic from the towers, filled with ancient ruins and places to explore, that this is quite a legitimate type of terrain.

 

[LiquidBlue]

I agree that a magically infused terrain is certainly to be expected. I am just saying that ruins and objects are not terrain.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I agree that a magically infused terrain is certainly to be expected. I am just saying that ruins and objects are not terrain.

Having climbed amongst real-world ruins, I would disagree, but I can see your point of view too.

 

[Someone]

I's argue for the benefits apply for "terrains that have been heavily altered by magic (like the land surrounding the elemental towers) and creatures native to those places"

 

[Rystil Arden]

I's argue for the benefits apply for "terrains that have been heavily altered by magic (like the land surrounding the elemental towers) and creatures native to those places"

It shouldn't be just adjacent to the towers, though. The towers have ley lines that affect the whole world. Any site particularly steeped in arcane power has a strong connection, as do many ancient ruins of magical societies.

 

[Someone]

"Like the lands surrounding the towers" doesn't mean just the lands surrounding the towers, but as an example of terrain altered by magic.