Horizon Walker Terrain Mastery: Arcane

[Rystil Arden]

"Like the lands surrounding the towers" doesn't mean just the lands surrounding the towers, but as an example of terrain altered by magic.

Ah, then in that case, depending on your definition of 'heavily', I think I may consider the lands to be a bit less stringent (I think moderately altered by magic or even just infused with magic is okay) but the creatures requirement to be even more stringent (heavily altered by magic isn't enough--they have to have been created by magic). However, it seems like we're at least thinking on pretty similar terms, then

 

[Someone]

Ah, then in that case, depending on your definition of 'heavily', I think I may consider the lands to be a bit less stringent (I think moderately altered by magic or even just infused with magic is okay)

A problem shared, in a lesser way, with other terrains. How many trees do you need to make a forest? At what height is a hill a mountain? (Actually for this one there's a definition IIRC, but you get the point)

However, it seems like we're at least thinking on pretty similar terms, then

I'd see my suggestion as more cnsistent with the way it works already, but yes, I think so.

 

[Patlin]

Aquatic
You gain a +4 competence bonus on Swim checks, or a +10-foot bonus to your swim speed if you have one. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against aquatic creatures.

Desert
You resist effects that tire you. You are immune to fatigue, and anything that would cause you to become exhausted makes you fatigued instead. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against desert creatures.

Forest
You have a +4 competence bonus on Hide checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against forest creatures.

Hills
You gain a +4 competence bonus on Listen checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against hills creatures.

Marsh
You have a +4 competence bonus on Move Silently checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against marsh creatures.

Mountains
You gain a +4 competence bonus on Climb checks, or a +10-foot bonus to your climb speed if you have one. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against mountain creatures.

Plains
You have a +4 competence bonus on Spot checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against plains creatures.

Underground
You have 60-foot darkvision, or 120-foot darkvision if you already had darkvision from another source. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against underground creatures.

Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft are Horizonwalker class skills for you, and you can use Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, and Read Magic each once per day as a spell-like ability with caster level equal to your character level. You gain a +1 insight bonus to attacks and damage against arcane creatures.

It seems slightly off the patern to me. How about:

Arcane
You have a +4 competence bonus on Knowledge(Arcana) checks. You can use Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, or Read Magic once per day as a spell-like ability with caster level equal to one half your character level, rounded down. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against Arcane creatures.

"Arcane creatures" would have to mean creatures from arcane terrain. Examples... hmm. I keep thinking of the Mournland, but you'd need to take that example next door... I think the Faerie Woods would probably be considered arcane terrain, though also forest. Any place else around with permanent, regional magical effects?

 

[Knight Otu]

IAny place else around with permanent, regional magical effects?

The lands in close proximity of the six Towers, as the most immediate example. I might be inclined to add the surroundings of the Keep of Bloodstained Dreams to the list as well, though the effects technically aren't permanent, as they are dependant on the "prisoner."

 

[Bront]

Technicaly, that definition could include many powerful wizards who make their homes on Ley Lines and such, or anyone at the Acadamey of the Arcane Order, which I believe was something that was trying to be avoided.

The inherant problem with the +4 to Arcane Knowledge, is that with it not being a class skill, it's possable that a Horizon Walker can't even use that bonus.

 

[Knight Otu]

Technicaly, that definition could include many powerful wizards who make their homes on Ley Lines and such, or anyone at the Acadamey of the Arcane Order, which I believe was something that was trying to be avoided.

My mayor worry was that "arcane creature" could be interpreted as applying to every single wizard, sorcerer, bard, assassin, etc, including things like dragons. I'd say to be native to Arcane terrain, the creature should either be a somewhat direct result of the magic in that terrain (not just there because it was attracted by the leylines, but somehow created, summoned, or called by it), or the magic should be a somewhat direct result of the creature (though the level of magic needs to be significant. It shouldn't be enough that there's a few walls of fire, but if the creature creates its personal Mordor...).

 

[Rystil Arden]

My mayor worry was that "arcane creature" could be interpreted as applying to every single wizard, sorcerer, bard, assassin, etc, including things like dragons. I'd say to be native to Arcane terrain, the creature should either be a somewhat direct result of the magic in that terrain (not just there because it was attracted by the leylines, but somehow created, summoned, or called by it), or the magic should be a somewhat direct result of the creature (though the level of magic needs to be significant. It shouldn't be enough that there's a few walls of fire, but if the creature creates its personal Mordor...).

I would say that any creature that was created by magic (not just studying it or interested in it) would fulfill the requirement, but you make a good point that a powerfully-infused creature that creates its personal Mordor would probably apply too. It's really up to the GM to decide on a case-by-case, and we aren't going to come into a game and insist either way, just like we wouldn't do so for hilly terrain and when it becomes a mountain.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Technicaly, that definition could include many powerful wizards who make their homes on Ley Lines and such, or anyone at the Acadamey of the Arcane Order, which I believe was something that was trying to be avoided.

The inherant problem with the +4 to Arcane Knowledge, is that with it not being a class skill, it's possable that a Horizon Walker can't even use that bonus.

As Bront said, the +4 to Knowledge Arcana is kind of bad for a HW. There is a big difference between giving a +4 bonus to a class skill you are likely to have capped out (Hide, Listen) and a trained-only cross-class skill. Actually, the +4 Knowledge Arcana is probably stronger for a min/maxer, as then she can put two points in it, gain one rank, and have a bigger bonus and then just use the skill points elsewhere. The new class skills require more of an investment, so they are weaker due to this but give better flavour.

 

[Patlin]

It's really up to the GM to decide on a case-by-case

I think this (definition of an arcane creature) is a bit more subject to debate than the definition of "hill" or "forest" creature. Enough so that it would be worth reaching some sort of consensus in this thread, for reference.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think this (definition of an arcane creature) is a bit more subject to debate than the definition of "hill" or "forest" creature. Enough so that it would be worth reaching some sort of consensus in this thread, for reference.

Right--I do agree, but my definition in post 1 is much tighter than the ones proposed later on:

The GM thinks to herself whether or not the creature was initially created by magic. For constructs, this is almost always going to be true. Also so for many undead (those raised by animate dead or negative energy fonts, but not a ghost or revenant who was simply tied to world by unfinished business). For fey and elementals, this would be true if they were spontaneously generated by magic, but a pixie who is the daughter of two other pixies would certainly not count, and a water elemental that was merely summoned here by a Planar Binding would not either--elementals that would count might be sentient extensions of the towers, magic elementals that leak from the ley lines, fey beings of pure magic and concept-fey of magic (perhaps Sidhe, if anyone uses them, for instance). Magical beasts and aberrations would not count for the most part (unicorns and the like), but if there happens to be one that is the result of a twisted experiment or a magical explosion or the like, the GM can certainly choose to count it. Dragons and humanoids would never count except in very very rare circumstances (spelltouched humans with a custom template the GM is using, or a custom dragon formed of raw magic, or something like that).