Okay, now I'm very confused. You said you ran games in Mystara, but now you are saying the only thing you took from Mystara was an item called the Blue Knife?
The reason for your confusion is because you're omitting words. Just look at the quote you are replying to and see what you have written.
Or is this a case of when you said "human centric" in your last post you meant "I ignored all lore for anything non-human for the entire setting"?
Correct, character goals had nothing to do with humanoids hence they were ignored.
So, if we change their official lore, you couldn't care less.
I'd say you're eliminating potential storylines for future gaming generations to create boring "skins"
After all, you've never read it until this week. Game running for a decade or more, and you never even bothered to read the monster lore.
That's right. Within the 10 years I have focused on the lore related to
Tyranny of Dragons (+ adventure league, includes Sammaster), Storm Kings Thunder (+ adventure league), Undermountain (+previous edition material), Wall of the Faithless (Fugue Plane + Kelemvor + City of the Dead, Thayan History (module Mission to Thay: Nethwatch Keep),
Murder in Baldur's Gates (+ Baldurs Gate game lore), Legacy of the Crystal Shard, Dragons of Faerun + Wyrms of the Realms, A'tar - Amonataur + Lathander, Parts of Netherese History, Sigil, The Lich Queen's Begotten (+ Astral Plane + Limbo), Other Monster Lore besides Gruumsh and Orcs...etc
But if it helps your case to paint things are you did, have fun with it.
Really makes me wonder why people have screamed that if we change orc lore it will lead to the death of DnD and the rise of Sunshine Kisses and Happy Hugs the RPG.
No one screamed, but Sunshine Kisses and Happy Hugs sound terrible that will likely include conditions such as Content and Blissful.
I see a lot of disconnects. This lore isn't a deep dive. It is pretty common knowledge.
If you say so. I once read, long ago, the 2e Handbook of Elves which may have covered some of it.
But, my pointing out the lore was in your response to "I don't see how this write-up is racist", it had nothing to do with ANY campaign. But then suddenly you started going on about some campaign and declaring this was the reason for the lore, to allow you to build this campaign.... but only if you had a high level orc character.
Elves don't like Orcs and Orcs do not like Elves but I did not see that in the PHB and I had asked about the PHB.
But let us ignore that and get back to my previous post's question which was not answered
What stardate do you wish to start in D&D?
1. No racism: The Age of Happy Hugs and Sunshines Kisses of the Spotless Mind
2. Some Racism: The Age of Conflicts and Struggle
I can tell you which most people are interested...but you won't believe me.
So, I'm confused. The lore as it stands helps demonstrate WHY the write up is racist, but you won't attempt to fix it, nor do you think anyone should attempt to fix it,
Correct, because there is nothing to fix. You see it as broken, I see opportunities - you wish to remove them.
unless it is through a campaign?
It is not fixing since nothing is broken. We do not remove Szass Tam beforehand to "fix" Thay because there are a billion+1 story-line possibilities with him present.
Because it is not broken.
You aren't attached to the lore, because you had never read orc lore or half orc lore or Gruumsh lore, so why is this so difficult to change and then go back to ignoring?
The elves get along with everyone. The orcs get along with everyone - sounds like a swell setting. Refer to Stardate question above.
What are you talking about? Why wouldn't they know about this supposed Mark of Gruumsh? I never said they weren't aware of it, I said that it was a thinly veiled attempt to use some racism. I mean, it literally says in my copy of the PHB, in the Mark of Gruumsh section, "The most accomplished half-orcs are those with enough self-control to get by in a civilized land."
Yeah, because some fantasy races share stronger emotional traits than others with their respective creators and that is cool. Diversity is fun.
But you know what, let me offer you something else, just to really drive this home. Want to see my write-up of orcs?
Orcs trace their creation to their father Gruumsh, the One- Eyed God, an unstoppable warrior and powerful leader and their mother Luthic, The Blood-Moon Witch, a wise sorceress and fierce protector. The Gods formed their children with certain gifts to help them thrive on worlds beset by monsters, specifically the burning blood that suffuses every Orc, driving them to move, to act, to fight, to dance, and allows them to take one more step in the face of death.
Orcs are, on average, tall and broad. They have gray skin marked with darker patches which burn red when they get excited, ears that are small and slightly pointed, prominent lower canines that resemble small tusks, and facial ridges that give them a slightly craggy appearance.
No mention of a primitive life style, no need to destroy, no "can they pass as civilized". And the orcs are still made in the image of Gruumsh. He just isn't pointlessly evil.
I like the description but there is NO CONFLICT.
No inner conflict. - story-lines lost.
No conflict with each other - story-lines lost.
No conflict with others - story-lines lost.
No life style stipulated - no flipped script possibility, orcs are just a skin with STR + some movement.
At this point you may as well change them into a Class.
Oh, hey! Look at that write-up I did that does the same thing, but not in a way that is racist and makes people seem like beasts. Sure would be nice if we could have something like that in the core books, instead of racist garbage. Luckily, the One DnD people agree, and made this:
Orcs trace their creation to Gruumsh, the One-Eyed God, an unstoppable warrior and powerful leader. Gruumsh armed his children with certain gifts to help them thrive on worlds beset by monsters. Even when they turn their devotion to other gods, orcs retain the gifts that the One-Eyed God bestowed upon them: might, endurance, determination, and the ability to see in the dark.
Orcs are, on average, tall and broad. They have gray skin, ears that are small and slightly pointed, and prominent lower canines that resemble small tusks. Young orcs are often told about their ancestors’ ancient conflicts with elves in forests, dwarves under mountains, and invaders from evil planes of existence. Inspired by those tales, young orcs often wonder when Gruumsh will call on them to match the heroic deeds of their ancestors, and if they will prove worthy of the One-Eyed God’s grace.
Bold emphasis mine. There is your Stardate. Racial enmity relegated into the past...because we can only abide by it in books, series, movies, current news, newspapers, computer games, play station games and Small World.
Another decent write-up that has a "mark of gruumsh" upon them, without being racist and terrible. It is almost like this isn't exactly rocket science.
Ah yes, we were struggling to make the orc more of a skin and we did not know how until it was shown to us.
